A Guide To All-grain Brewing In A Bag

[FNQ Bunyip]

Maybe as a lot of BIAB sofar has been done by New AG'rs we could all start to pay a bit more attention to some of the finner points of brewing.
Iknow that I now have time to do a bit of cleaning or other stuff around my brewery area and not "hover " over the whole time. I take readings on my refractometer and will do FGs when these are finished with an hydrometer.
I'm sure that with a few more on the score sheet we will all get a better idea how the data stacks up..

As Zizz says DrK your intrust shows, why not give it ago and report "Your data" back to us starting out on the road that you have traveld so far on. Your scienctific approch may come up with some interesting output.

Cheers

 

[PistolPatch]

You did bloody well to read all the posts here Kurt!

There might have been a bit more discussion on gravities etc in the "All In One Brewery" thread I think. I can't even keep up with where evrything has been posted! Anyway I've put a few more in at the bottom here.

With the 2.5% Schwartz, this was a brewing error. I failed to check my end of boil volume and it was way too high. (Made that mistake sober as well!)

The other Schwartzs ranged from 3.5% to 6% ABV with the final gravities being around 1.014 which is also similiar to what Ross gets with his batch-sparging.

So as far as I can see, most of the figures we have available seem to show no difference. When I get some time, I'll have a bash at doing some side by side brews with normal versus full-volume brewing.

Apart from the extra figures below, I think that's all I can offer here at this stage and I really should be packing - lol.

Cheers
Pat

A Few Other Gravities

Pilsener1 OG 1.048 down to FG 1.10 (Expecteds were 1.048 and 1.012)
Pilsener2 OG 1.047 down to 1.010 (Expecteds were 1.045 and 1.012)
Schwartz1 OG 1.053 down to 1.015 (Expecteds were 1.055 and 1.013)
Schwartz2 OG 1.052 down to 1.014 (Expecteds were 1.054 and 1.013)
Kilcenny OG (Mid-Strength) 1.033 down to 1.005. (Expecteds were 1.038 and 1.010)
ESB OG 1.052 down to 1..010 (Expecteds were 1.045 and 1.011)

 

[wobbly]

As PP states this BIAB thread started as on off shute to the "All in One Brewery" thread started by James Squire back in June/July 06.

The "All in One" principle (in my view) is closer to traditional mashing and does not appear to depart very far from the traditional science and is/was therefore more attractive for me than the BIAB concept. It also offers another low cost effective way to get into all grain brewing.

The "All in One" principle is/was nothing new and as pointed out by "Flemming" is based on a number of commercial kits available through out Europe.

Whilst the "All in One" principle appears to be based on high grist to water ratios (5:1 or higher) from my observations and actual brews the ratio inside the "mash bucket" is much closer to traditional ratios of around 3:1. The "other" liquid is basically a heat source surounding the mash bucket.

To date I have completed 9 brews using this method and have another 2 in secondary conditioning and other traditional mash brewers have commented (subjectively) that they (my beers) are good beers.

My results to date are summarised in the following

#1 a golden ale style
Grian 5.2kgs
OG 1050
FG 1008
Yeast US56

#2 Golden Ale Style
Grain 4.4kgs
OG 1040
FG 1008
Yeast US56

#3 Irish Red Ale
Grain 5.2kgs
OG 1051
FG 1013
Yeast wy 1084

#4 APA Style
Grian 4.95kgs
OG 1048
FG 1010
Yeast wy1272

#5 APA style
Grain 5kg
OG 1046
FG 1008
Yeast wy 1272

#6 Heffe Style
Grain 5.4 kg
OG 1046
FG 1012
Yeast wy 3068

#7Belgin(?)
Grain 5.3
OG 1051
FG 1005
Yeast WLP530

#8 Pale Ale
Grain 4.6kg
OG 1046
FG 1011
Yeast Rogue Pacman

#9 Pale Ale
Grain 5kg
OG 1050
FG 1012
Yeast Rogue Pacman

I am quite happy with the results from this method and see no reason to change at this time.

Benefits as far as I am concerned are low cost and ease of use.
Costs were 36lt Robinox stock pot $115, 2.4kw immersion heater $56, 1.5kw portable hot plate $34, Aquarium Pump $12, Mayo mash bucket (free) Fibre Glass fly screen false bottom $3

 

[Maxt]

If nothing else, Kurtz has prompted us to be a bit more scientific about reporting the results we are getting.

My OG and FG's

Chocolate Oat Porter 1 : 6kg grain OG ? (broken Hydrometer) FG 1020 (Windsor)
APA: 5kg grain OG 1045 FG 1012 (US-56)
Chocolate Oat Porter 2: 6kg grain OG 1052 FG 1022 (Windsor)
Aussie Lager: 4.25kg grain OG 1034 FG 1012 (Saflager)

 

[hughman666]

i started AG with BIAB as a transition to AG from extract brewing while I was assembling the rest of the equipment.

now i have finished my mash tun (55L esky), i am not using a SS braid but have lined it with the mash bag from BIAB, works bloody well.

anyway, i have now done a few brews using my mash tun and can compare previous brews with my BIAB brews:

BIAB (all done with US56):

Pale Ale
OG: 1048
FG: 1010

Golden Ale
OG: 1044
FG: 1012

Kolsch:
OG: 1047
FG: 1012

Traditional AG (using US56):

Pale Ale
OG: 1048
FG: 1012

Kolsch
OG: 1043
FG: TBC

I guess my experience has been that the BIAB brews have had no noticeable difference in taste or OG to the traditional brewing method. I'm moving to traditional AG because I want to build a full rig with march pump, automation etc etc, and go on to doing double and triple batches. however if I was pushed for space and/or costs BIAB is a viable alternative method and in my opinion produces beers of equal quality to traditional methods. the only drawback i can see is that you are limited to single batches. this shouldn't be an issue though for 90% of microbrewers.

 

[dr K]

This is fantastic (and please read no more into that just a word).
I can now look at the results of a number of BIAB brewers (I have as yet not done so) and see, if only for myself, the results of such a mashing regime.
I was hoping (and thus the reason in part for my original post) that I would find another path to the dextrinoous worts created by turbid mashing(*) without all the intricasies involved in so doing, a short-cut as it were,but feel on reflection that, as short cuts are wont to do, will find myself at a dead end.

(*) Turbid mashing ...a crazy tax evasion techinque employed by sections of current belgium when those sections fell under dutch tax laws.

K

 

[PistolPatch]

Glad to see the combined effort above answered your question Kurt. Sorry it didn't make a short-cut for you though.

It was really interesting to explore the attenuation as it's something that no one else has thought of until now - we all just assumed it would be the same as traditional methods. It's good, for us anyway, to see that this seems to be correct.

Sometimes I wonder when I read things in the advanced textbooks. For example, they often say things like doing such and such will give you a maltier beer but often never specify how much maltier. Is it 1% or 10% maltier? This may be of great concern to a commercial brewery but largely irrelevant to craftbrewers.

I sometimes find it very hard to work out what's important and what's not from the advanced books and articles.

The learning continues...

Cheers,
Pat

P.S. Thanks a lot not only to Kurtz but everyone else for all your informative posts above :super:

 

[Finite]

Ok guys im almost ready to do my first AG using the BIAB method.

Just wanted to check some things first about the mash.. 15L batch btw

Im mashing at 66c and a water/grain ratio of 2.5L/Kg. I read that the escolater mash is not the way to go so if im doing a single infusion beersmith says I add 8.1L of 72.4c strike water to the pot and mash for 60min. Do I then just top up the pot for the boil?

Im also going to be mash hopping do I add the hops at the start of the mash?

 

[jimmysuperlative]

Ok guys im almost ready to do my first AG using the BIAB method.

Just wanted to check some things first about the mash.. 15L batch btw

Im mashing at 66c and a water/grain ratio of 2.5L/Kg. I read that the escolater mash is not the way to go so if im doing a single infusion beersmith says I add 8.1L of 72.4c strike water to the pot and mash for 60min. Do I then just top up the pot for the boil?

Im also going to be mash hopping do I add the hops at the start of the mash?

What size pot are you using? If you are using the BIAB method you will start with your full volume of water in your boiler ...for example, I start with 38L. I'll lose some to grain absorbtion (2-4L) and some to evaporation (10-12L) during the boil.

So, I end up with 24 - 26L at the end of my boil. I leave 1 or 2L of break in the boiler ...and end up with a batch size of 23 - 24L.

As for hitting your mash temps ...I just turn the heat on and add the grains to the water (in bag, of course) and continue heating and stirring continuously until the correct temps are met. Then, it's heat off, cover pot and check every 15 -25mins to see if more heat (and stirring) is needed.

If you haven't downloaded Pistolpatch's excel document (page 1 of this thread), then I'd take a look at it for the step by step (minute by minute) outline of the method.

Hope this helps Finite?

 

[Zizzle]

My first BIAB was a half batch on the stove. You want to fill your pot with water such that the grain will just fit in without spilling any. Then the water heat to about 70 deg.

Line the pot with he bag then dump the grain in. Check temp at ever increasing intervals, and apply heat as necessary to maintain your target mash temp. After 90min reef the bag out, and squeeze out some wort, while bringing the pot to the boil.

Do your hop additions while boiling, chill in the bath or laundry sink.

Too easy.

 

[Finite]

What size pot are you using?

50L pot (converted keg) and doing a 15L batch,

doesnt the water / grain raito matter when doing a BIAB mash?

 

[Stuster]

Apparently not, Finite. Whack in all the water and away you go.

 

[Finite]

okie dokies thanks for the replies fellas!

 

[Finite]

First AG (BIAB)

Well its mashing atm. Let me just star by saying omg im a knob. I must say im having a cracker of a time even though.....


I was pooring the grain into the pot stiring smelling good.....OH shit....forgot the god damn bag! :beerbang:. Had a little panic then stoped and remembered one of the best rules in live. Dont Panic. So I though of some solutions.

Ended up doing this:

Took the pot and placed it up high...made a quick makeshift 3 teir system with my brew pot on top with about 1/4 of the grain added, scooped out the majority with the strainer into the grain bag which was in a bucked with tap and racking tube attached. I then carefully (sparged if you will) the wort through the grain and out the tube into the fermenter I had waiting.

So i had the hot (weak) and clean wort in the fermenter....took the pot and cleaned it out with hot tap water to get all the grain out, tested the tap wasnt cloged (nope). Then racked (carefully trying to to splash to much) the wort back into the clean pot, it had droped about 8C so i heated it up to about 0.5C under my initial strike water temp and added the grain back with wet grain then added the rest of the grain... hit 66.5C and stired until 66. Its now mashing with about 35min to go. Lost about 2 C so far so ive heated it abit and it is sitting at 65.5 atm.

So im back on track...recon i saved it? I think it might be ok. I must say I dont care too much, cause Im having a good time. I can always make more and wont make the same mistake LOL.

Brew On,

Blake

P.S: BTW maybe a new angle here Pat? Just think of the potential haha....

Brew In a Bag, Without a bag, Then a Bag.

 

[jimmysuperlative]

Good recovery ............Top stuff! "BIAGWOABTAB" ...I don't know if that will catch on????

 

[The King of Spain]

I've already posted this under a different thread, but for the consistancy here 'tis. First BIAB and one of the nicest beers I've tasted. Selected a recipe I liked the look of, made a few adjustments with Ross and volia!! Far exceeds expectations. Hope this is not a fluke. Its getting drank in preferance to a box of Stella in the fridge.

 

[wobbly]

Well I guess someone had to "Rain on the Parade" of BIAB/All in One Brewery/Full Volume Mashing

After 12 brews using the "All in One" concept I am going to revert to "traditional mashing" as non of my past 12 beers has been as good as those I made using traditional mashing methods (albeit a "bucket in a bucket system")

I have spoken at lenght of the issues with Roy at TWOC and tried a number of adjustments without any real improvement.

Issues

Most beers have evidenced a "chill haze" I have tested and confirmed conversion with an Iodine test and also tried increasing whirlfloc addtion to 30 mins from end of boil with no benefit.

Most beers have exhibited a sweet tatse (best way to describe it) with a variety of yeasts US56, Wyeast 1056, Weast 1272, Rogues Pacman, WLP 530. Grain bill has not had an excess of either Crystal, Munich or Vienna malts

Most beers have tended to be quite "malty" with mash temps of 65C. Double checked the reading with a second thermometer

I have been using a muslin hop bag (about 200mm dia) and none of my beers exhibit the hop flavours of those brewed with the hops added direct to the boil. SG into boiler have typically been 1035 to 1040 and hop additions have been equivilant to that required to provide a range of 26 to 40 IBU according to Beer Smith. I have purchased so called "fresh hops" to try and discount old/stale hops.

I have been using an immersion heater in lieu of a three ring gas burner. Evaporation rates have been down a bit from 14% to around 12%.

So I'm going back to using a new (Christmas present) Ice Cold eski with a Phills False Bottom (an upgrade from the Bucket in a Bucket) and also going back to adding the hops direct to the kettle in an effort to get back where I was 6/8 months ago and use the three ring burner again for the boil

Comments would be welcomed

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[Zizzle]

Well, I'm going the opposite direction to wobbly. I'm ramping up my BIAB rig.

And my last BIAB I mashed at 65 which turned out far to dry for my tastes. I don't care that much about clarity, but if I did, I'd probably try adding whirlfloc, polyclar then filtering.

Last night I scavenged a bit of angle iron I had laying around to help hoist my bag and bolted it up to my brew stand.

Today it's in action. Here you can see it in action, wort draining out and all:

Not the straightest or prettiest bit of gear, but it was free and only took about 30mins.

Those 2 elements @ 2200W sure get it boiling:

The bag is also being used as a hop sock there.

 

[FNQ Bunyip]

way to go Zizz,

I did another this arvo , #6

Still lifting my bag but working on the lifting mount.

:beer: merry xmas

 

[dr K]

Wobbly, who has tried BIAB 12 times has decided that is not for him/her and is going back the to traditional methods, flawed as they may be..
Wobblies reports of teh BIAB beers that he/she has made are rather too sweet.
This, of course makes perfect sense, for, as I have pointed out before the water to grain ratio that you lads (and I say lads because I cannot imagine a woman being so pig headedly stupid) use in your all in one , full volume method will lead only down the path of beta amalyicide.
The BIABic self obsession with patently flawed methods and the BIABer's monocular view of the world makes it impossible for them to step outside of their rather constricted world view and embrace some sensible, logical and heaven forbid even moderately science based truth.
Oh cut me down tweedle dee and of course tweedle dumb, use my straw head as fuel for the fire, that Salemic pyre that burns witches such as i who dare admit that they actually not trod the holey path !!
The base line is that you guys are actually on to something very very good, something that could actually make as big a cahnge to home brewing as the Pap a Zap, you are just going the wrong way and unless you open that other eye you will never ever know, will you???
So stop thinking that you are the new wave and look around.

Kynically Yours...
Kurtz

ps.....it will work, just think really hard !!!