A few racking questions

[trustyrusty]

Hi Ok I am sure this has been covered before, but perhaps there are new ideas on the subject.

Does everyone rack their beer? ( I am doing kits at the moment, but would AG it make a difference?) I was reading about leaving beer to long in fermenter and yeast will start to eat other stuff because there is no sugar. Another site was referring to this as possibly "home brew" flavour which they may mean off flavours or bitterness. Some brewers are recommending to get away from yeast cake / dropping krauzen with racking as soon as possible.

This what I have done - as I was reading something about "pressure fermenting". Using a keg as racking storage.

I have put in a keg after it reached FG or very close to and sealed under some pressure with Co2. There is no head space with O2 so I should not have an issue with oxidation. I will release some pressure now and again.

After 3 or 4 days (Should be longer?) I might cold crash for 7 days and then add CO2 for carbonation. First pour maybe a bit cloudy with yeast drop...

This beer I made was an experiment re culturing US 05 yeast, which seemed to work well. It was essentially an experimental beer, so I don't mind experiment more I have plenty of yeast now .

What are your thoughts?

 

[trustyrusty]

" A beer left in the primary fermenter for an extended period can be susceptible to “yeastbite” which is a back palate harshness caused by leaving it for too long on the thick pad of yeast at the bottom of your primary fermentor." - Brewers Choice... Finally found what I was looking for

Finally I might have found what I have been looking for... I have been going on about bitterness in some of my beers, and always ended up people think I was talking about bitterness re Hops... - This is what I have meant... susceptible to “yeastbite” which is a back palate harshness. Some people have always said minimum two weeks - well that depends on temp. and FG and type of yeast...

I have tasted what I have racked, I think it is less 'bitter' than normal... Think racking is quite important?

Thanks

 

[MHB]

Racking is one of those questions that divides the brewing community into waring camps.
Personally I think its a balance decision, there are pros and cons to consider. The benefits/drawbacks are the same for kit and AG brewers.

There are risks in racking, there are risks in not racking (as you identified above) among others.
The down side is the increased risk of infection, oxidisation and the extra work and equipment required.
The main upsides are, the possibility (arguably probability) of better cleaner beer, the ability to crop a yeast cake that is more suitable for repatching, lower levels of head destroying Protease A, longer in contact with healthy yeast - so lower levels of some common off flavours...

I think racking rewards brewers who are making high gravity/alcohol beers, who are pitching less than ideal amounts of yeast, want to leave the beer in contact wit yeast longer.

Before I thought about racking, I would make sure I had good temperature control over the ferment and very good hygiene practices.
Mark

 

[MastersBrewery]

One of my favourite debates. For ales I could take it or leave it, for lagers I think it's a definite must. Avoid the entire issue and get a shiny conical you can then dump yeast/trub without moving the beer. Probably like most SWMBO was castrate me with a wooden mash paddle if I turned up home with a $1000 fermenter. So some beers I rack.

 

[indica86]

I have never racked anything and don't see the reason to. MHB knows his stuff but in my homebrewing set up there is no benefit to be had.
I brew all grain.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

For me it doesn't seem that much different to cask ale, taking the beer off the yeast to finish in the cask.

 

[Dave70]

Commercial brewers tend to use conical fermenters where the contact area with the yeast cake is smaller. They also drain off / harvest the yeast / sediment, which I'm (though I've never worked in one) sure they do if the beer is to be stored for any length of time post fermentation. It would seem like best practice. So actually more an argument for conical fermenters than racking.

 

[MHB]

Dave, Conicals were introduced mainly as its easier/quicker/cheaper/safer to remove a small volume of trub than to pump all the beer to another tank.
Ideally the outcomes are the same, they are I think an argument for controlling the trub under the beer by any means necessary - rather than an argument for CCV's or racking - they are an argument for the process.
Mark

 

[kaiserben]

One of my favourite debates. For ales I could take it or leave it, for lagers I think it's a definite must. Avoid the entire issue and get a shiny conical you can then dump yeast/trub without moving the beer. Probably like most SWMBO was castrate me with a wooden mash paddle if I turned up home with a $1000 fermenter. So some beers I rack.

I routinely leave lagers on the cake for 4 weeks.

6 days at 9-12C.
Slow rise (over 3 days) to 18C and hold there for 3 more days. (sub total 12 days so far)
Slow chill to 1C over 6 days. (sub total 18 days so far)
Hold at 1C for 10 more days before packaging. (Total = 28 days)

Sure, if I had the equipment to dump I would do so, but I'm producing great lagers without any problems that I can detect.

Latest batch I did the above schedule, salvaged the cake and pitched it into a Bock in which I'll do the same schedule again. If I'm ever going to notice the effects of beer on old/dead yeast/trub then this batch will be the one. (I'll report back if I remember to)

EDIT: Oh, and in general, I don't rack because I'm far more worried about oxidation than yeast autolysis. I already rack to a bottling bucket as it is. Don't want to double the chances.

 

[danestead]

In my plastic fermenter days, I was a non-racker. The risk of infection, oxidation, and the additional effort far outweighed the benefits for me. If you were fermenting without temperature control and your beer was sitting a bit hot, it'd probably sway me closer to being a racker.

I've now got a conical and dump the yeast when I see fit. The best of both worlds I guess. I'm not sure if it has improved my beers though.

 

[dannymars]

Commercial volume FVs have massive downward pressures on the yeast cake compared to a 20lt carboy... so the same considerations are not applicable.

I have had good success with racking beers, but I've also had great beers that were not racked too.

Now I have a conical, so the point is moot... But I realise that it is a piece of (awesome) unnecessary bling for a homebrewer.

 

[trustyrusty]

I routinely leave lagers on the cake for 4 weeks.

6 days at 9-12C.
Slow rise (over 3 days) to 18C and hold there for 3 more days. (sub total 12 days so far)
Slow chill to 1C over 6 days. (sub total 18 days so far)
Hold at 1C for 10 more days before packaging. (Total = 28 days)

As someone pointed out temp control is maybe better than racking?
After 12 days you chill to 1 degree, that is probably the same putting in another vessel as the yeast will go dormant and will start to clear?

 

[danestead]

As someone pointed out temp control is maybe better than racking?
After 12 days you chill to 1 degree, that is probably the same putting in another vessel as the yeast will go dormant and will start to clear?

Temperature control is one of the biggest things in brewing, behind sanitation and probably another couple. Racking is just fine tuning however I still stand that the risks of racking outweigh the benefits so racking may actually make your beer worse.

With reference to chilling at 12 days, make sure you are determining when to chill based on hydrometer readings. It'd be rare for me to have a lager ready to chill at 12 days, so be careful. If it is in fact done by 12 days, what is the point in transferring to another vessel when you could chill the beer in the primary vessel for a week to clear, then keg and drink or keg and let lager for a while?

 

[crowmanz]

I think racking is used more in the US because many homebrewers over there don't have fermentation fridges, they have basements that regulate temp (ales in summer, lagers in winter) and use the racking to secondary as a way of clearing the beer.

Here in Aus, I'd recommend a temp controlled fridge before nearly any other upgrade or change to process (cleanliness/sanitation is the first). The ability to cold crash will clear the beer and slow down the yeasties.

 

[kaiserben]

As someone pointed out temp control is maybe better than racking?
After 12 days you chill to 1 degree, that is probably the same putting in another vessel as the yeast will go dormant and will start to clear?

Far more important. But moreso your pitching temperature and control during the adaptive and attenuative phases IMO.

 

[MHB]

Personally I would rate temperature control above going AG as a step toward better more consistent beer.
Nothing is more important than hygiene!
It is also problematic to draw some conclusions from brewery practice, particularly when it comes to yeast. breweries do pitch a lot more yeast than home brewers (generally), If a commercial primary wasn't over in seven days it would have been seriously underpitched. I would suggest that if your beer isn't finished and ready to package in 14 days you should rack, and revisit your pitching rates for your next brew.
Remember that the first yeast to hit the bottom is the oldest yeast and the first to breakdown and start causing off flavours. This isn't a theory its something that can be measured in a good brewery laboratory and is a monitored parameter in big commercial brewing, Old yeast is bad for beer, its up to you how much of the flavour and other effects you can putt up with, and how far you are willing to go to make better beer.
Mark

 

[Diesel80]

No Racking here, ferment + crash chill then package in / from the one fermenter.
No Issues thus far, longest i have left a beer was 3 weeks fermenting then 4 weeks CC.

Cheers,
D80

 

[Rocker1986]

No racking here either except for bulk priming purposes. Ales packaged in 3 weeks (1 week CC), lager in 4 weeks (2 weeks CC), no problems at all so far, so in my case it seems an unnecessary process and I have never bothered with it. I have left lagers in the primary for 8 or 9 weeks in the past with no issues as well but I'm too impatient to bother doing that anymore.