A Beer Machine, A Coopers Can Kit And Brewing Process

[okolicsa]

Hi All,

I am a new here and this is my 1st post, so please take it easy on me (my head is already spinning with information I have beer reading on here). After 3 week of reading things on this forum, and coming up to my second brew, I thought it was time I asked some questions. So here goes:

I received 'The Beer Machine' as a birthday gift and made my first brew using the Pilsner kit that came with it (now just about gone ). So I thought it was time to investigate my next brew for which I decided to go for the Coopers Australian Pale Ale kit to make the Coopers Pale Ale from their site while I slowly build up my knowlidge. I intend to use The Beer Machine again for this ( and for the rest of the year, to get some return onto it) and use the same process as with the Pilsner, but this time follow the '1, 2, 3' process, but without going to a secondary. e.g.:
1 week - fermentation (or until I get 2 consecutive reading over 2 days)
1-2 weeks - put the beer machine in the fridge for clarification (the pilsner took 2 weeks to clarify). I hope that this will work and I don't have to add something else to it to clarify the beer like finings (hope this is the right term).
3 weeks - put the beer into a party (5L) kegs that I have around for priming and keg carbonating (have got some bungs for them also). The beer machine tap has a float inside which should help me with siphoning above the yeast cake.

Now for the questions:
1) The coopers can kit comes for a 23L volume. I intend to split this, and other ingredients in 2 (as the Beer Machine is only 10L) but not sure about the yeast? I found a yeast calculator on here which showed I should probably use half (5grams) based on og and volume, but my local homebrew store told me I will need another packet if I inter to split the can in 2.
2) If I put the beer machine in the fridge for 2 weeks (or until its clear), can I still prime with casting sugar for keg carbonation? Or will the yeas be completely dead and thus not carbonate. I intend to then leave the kegs out at room temperature.
3) The beer machine holds between 10-15psi pressure when fermenting and in the fridge, which I believe carbonates the beer. Will this affect the amount of sugar I use for priming in a keg?
4) Any general comments are welcome?

Thanks

 

[adryargument]

1) Half, with the 2nd hand malt once you have opened it - boil it to make sure that no nasties are in it.
2) Yes, however the yeast will just multiply and become kind of cloudy again, cold condition last. Cold condition the keg...
3) Possibly, but its not like a kegs going to explode like a bottle. Test it.
4) Starting to craft brew with a beer machine?? Awesome. At least its something different.

 

[okolicsa]

1) Half, with the 2nd hand malt once you have opened it - boil it to make sure that no nasties are in it.
2) Yes, however the yeast will just multiply and become kind of cloudy again, cold condition last. Cold condition the keg...
3) Possibly, but its not like a kegs going to explode like a bottle. Test it.
4) Starting to craft brew with a beer machine?? Awesome. At least its something different.

Hmm, some interesting points there adryargument and my apologies for the bad english above (I was in a hurry to get out of the office ).
1) Just out of curiosity if you boil the caned malt does it change it in any way? Make it darker, etc..... (I was planing on just putting foil and the lid back on and storing it in the fridge)
2) Is there any point in me moving the beer machine into the fridge prior to keging? I was hoping it will make the beer a bit more clear by following the mentioned process. Based on your reply, I could just leave it outside for 3 weeks for the yeast cake to form and then keg prime and later fridge. (hmm having a DR Karl moment, might be time for an experiment)

 

[stux]

1) repasteurize the 2nd half of the ingredients before using. Coopers tins only come with 7 grams of yeast, which is just about the right amount for 15L or so. I'd probably just pitch the whole yeast into the first batch. You can then use a different yeast/adjuncts/hops for the second batch

2) there sHould be enough yeast but t might take longer to carbonate. Fwiw I cold crash my fermented before kegging, which is similar to what you want to do. An alternative would be to get a coopers DIY beer kit, you can then ferment a full batch in the fermented and 'bottle' into your beer machine and two mini kegs. You should be able to add the priming sugar to the beer machine and carbonate and then have the benefit of the tap with no residual primary trub

3) ummm

4) see point 2

 

[adryargument]

Hmm, some interesting points there adryargument and my apologies for the bad english above (I was in a hurry to get out of the office ).
1) Just out of curiosity if you boil the caned malt does it change it in any way? Make it darker, etc..... (I was planing on just putting foil and the lid back on and storing it in the fridge)
2) Is there any point in me moving the beer machine into the fridge prior to keging? I was hoping it will make the beer a bit more clear by following the mentioned process. Based on your reply, I could just leave it outside for 3 weeks for the yeast cake to form and then keg prime and later fridge. (hmm having a DR Karl moment, might be time for an experiment)

May make the malt a tad darker, possibly a bit more caramel flavours the longer you boil - i don't really use tins.
If its more than 2 weeks on the yeast cake i would refrigerate. Infection and yeast autolysis can otherwise be problems.

 

[mfeighan]

2) 2 i personally would leave it for another week at primary fermentation temp for the yeast to clean up their mess (you dont see the hydro drop) you should have a nicer drop
3) if the beer machine holds 10-15 psi whilst fermenting would you even need to prime it shouldn't it already be carbonated during the primary fermentation?

you can also cold condition in the party keg to free up your beer machine for another batch! The first pour will be a little cloudy the rest should be clear as long as you dont mix it up


welcome to AHB and to brewing

 

[okolicsa]

Thanks for the extra tips guys. Duly noted.

Stux I think you are right. I can see that I will be getting a 23litter brewing kit soon. I have also realised that the tap on the beer machine does not work very efficiently without pressure. I expect filling the second keg might take some time without a CO2 cartridge to help. As for cold crashing my brew, it is becoming increasingly clear that a brew fridge will be needed, not only for chilling but also for temperature control during fermentation (I live in QLD).

Mikey, yes the beer machine does also carbonated during the primary fermentation, so in theory you should not need to re-carbonate. I was hoping to add some sugar to create a CO2 barrier and additional carbonation in the keg for storage.

So now that the beer machine is free, its time for a new brew. I think I will change the process a little bit to be:
1st brew, 2 weeks fermentation in the beer machine and then fill the kegs (adryargumet, this should get it away from the yeast cake and free the beer machine up).
2nd brew, will be done all in the beer machine, fermentation then to the fridge.

It will be interesting to compare the clarity of the beer from the 2 processes and see if the beer machine lives up to my 1st original brew and be ready in 3 weeks when brewing from a different kit than the intended delivered one. If it does in theory I will brew 20 litters in 4-5 weeks, similar to the coopers kit.

Regardless of the outcome, i'm learning about different brewing processes and the basics. Thanks for all your advice.

 

[slayertat]

you dont need to add yeast the next time round as the beer machine does a continuous brew thing, you can get up to 6 brews without having to clean it just prepare you mix...which is half of everything including dextrose and malt. then dump her in and your off again. Beer machine is ok. the packets that come with it I found suck. Ive been buying morgans tins etc at my brew store and its worked out lovely and with very minimum fuss.

 

[d3vour3r]

doesnt the beer machine have a CO2 cartridge atachedment thingy where u can carbonate it that way?

this thing could be good for use as a little keg. make a full 23 L batch, put 10 L of cold conditioned beer into the beer machine and bottle the rest....

Just carbonate in the beer machine using a CO2 bulb. Im on the website now scoping it out... http://www.beermachine.com/

 

[alcoadam]

doesnt the beer machine have a CO2 cartridge atachedment thingy where u can carbonate it that way?

this thing could be good for use as a little keg. make a full 23 L batch, put 10 L of cold conditioned beer into the beer machine and bottle the rest....

Just carbonate in the beer machine using a CO2 bulb. Im on the website now scoping it out... http://www.beermachine.com/

You wont carbonate it with the bulbs.

 

[d3vour3r]

You wont carbonate it with the bulbs.

so u natural carb, the use blulbs to maintain serv pressure?

 

[okolicsa]

so u natural carb, the use blulbs to maintain serv pressure?

Not 100% sure but i believe you might be able to use the bulbs to carb as well. I say this as I had a small leak around one of the co2 bulbs which let the pressure out and the beer went flat over a weekend period. Once I realised, I changed the bulb and made sure that there was no leak. I was then able to re-presureise to 10psi and leave it over night. The beer was nice once again (at least the 6 beers that were left). The temp in the fridge was between 0-5 degrees ( which was confirmed as I did find a small bit of ice in the beer machine before putting my next batch down).

From what i have read on this forum there is a relationship between temperature and CO2 pressure needed to carb beer. From memory it was something like 5-6 degrees at 70-80kpa (which is about 10-11PSI) for a slow carb.