2nd Ag

[churchy]

Hi guys I bottled my second AG yesturday apart from running out of carbonation drops and had to use sugar for the rest of the bottles it went ok.My question is my OG was 1040 and FG was only 1019 I know that my strike water temp was too high about 74c I had the lid off my mash tun to try and get the temp down but stayed around 72 for about 40min.I think this explains why the FG was high.My question then is how does the high FG reading affect the beer.


Cheers Andrew

 

[buttersd70]

It will have more residual sweetness and malt flavour than what you expected, and (obviously) lower alcohol. More body, as well. These aren't necessarily bad things......depends on what you were brewing.

 

[seemax]

I always have cold fridge water and boiling water next to my mash tun during mash in. This makes it fairly easy and quick to achieve your desired mash temp.

What style of beer did you brew and what was the IBU?

If in the order of 20IBU, I suspect it will be overly sweet due to remaining fermentables and quite low in alcohol.

 

[Darren]

Churchy,

Watch those bottles. 1.017 FG is very high and could cause bottle bombs (especially if you added carb drops/sugar). I would check a bottle each week.

cheers

Darren

 

[Gavo]

Churchy,

Watch those bottles. 1.017 FG is very high and could cause bottle bombs (especially if you added carb drops/sugar). I would check a bottle each week.

cheers

Darren

A good idea to wait until they are just carbed up and drink them before they get the chance.

Cheers
Gavo.

 

[Screwtop]

Bulk prime and use a priming calculator, takes into consideration FG, volume and temp of the beer.

Screwy

 

[buttersd70]

Agree with screwy, that should be ok if the prime is calculated properly....but also kind of agree with Darren. My thought is that if high FG is expected and planned for, all is well. If high FG is accidental and unexpected, it's best to err on the side of caution and check a bottle in a week, even if the high fg can be explained in hindsight. Better to try one in a week, and have peace of mind as a result. Just make sure it's chilled when you try it. If it's overcarbed in a small period of time, vent the batch. If it's flat, it's one beer wasted to ensure the survival of the rest.

 

[PostModern]

What yeast did you ferment with? Some strains stall, then come back once roused (say during bottling).
Keep a constant vigil on the pressure in the bottles.

 

[Fourstar]

Churchy, i wouldnt be too concerned. I had this issue with 2 brews i did when i realised my laser sight thermo was giving out dodgy readings from steam created by the mash. was expecting 66 deg mash's and was getting 72 deg.

I had 5% beers that ended up as 3.5, 3.8% beers as a result of all the unfermentables and all due to poor attenuation from a high mash temp. It wont be overly sweet, just a thick/heavy mouthfeel to the beer due to the high FG.

It will still taste great either way!

 

[Darren]

Agree with screwy, that should be ok if the prime is calculated properly....but also kind of agree with Darren. My thought is that if high FG is expected and planned for, all is well. If high FG is accidental and unexpected, it's best to err on the side of caution and check a bottle in a week, even if the high fg can be explained in hindsight. Better to try one in a week, and have peace of mind as a result. Just make sure it's chilled when you try it. If it's overcarbed in a small period of time, vent the batch. If it's flat, it's one beer wasted to ensure the survival of the rest.

Butters,

I doubt you could get FG 1.018 with and OG 1.040 even if you planned (except if you added lactose). Churchys beer has for some reason stopped before ferment has finished. Bottle bombs will most likely result unless vented or drunk quickly.

cheers

darren

 

[TidalPete]

Butters,

I doubt you could get FG 1.018 with and OG 1.040 even if you planned (except if you added lactose). Churchys beer has for some reason stopped before ferment has finished. Bottle bombs will most likely result unless vented or drunk quickly.

cheers

darren

Tend to agree with Darren on this one (Not to say that we agree on things very often ). Good luck churchy.

TP

 

[buttersd70]

Butters,

I doubt you could get FG 1.018 with and OG 1.040 even if you planned (except if you added lactose). Churchys beer has for some reason stopped before ferment has finished. Bottle bombs will most likely result unless vented or drunk quickly.

cheers

darren

Short answer is "bullshit". Of course you can.

Longer answer is, I get 1012 consistantly from an OG of 1026-1028, even when using Nottingham....because I mash a specific way to force it to do so. If you know how to manipulate your mash in that fashion, to favour the production of dextrins over maltose, you can drop your apparant attenuation from the projected 70 (ish) % down to as low as 40% (theoretically. That being said, I've never been able to drop much below 50%).
Have a look through literature for "jumpmash" aka "springmaischverfahren"

Various special mashing programmes are used in Germany (Kunze, 1996; Narziss,
1992a, b ). In the jump-mash system (Springmaischverfahren), which is used to produce
wort with a low fermentability, a thick mash is prepared at 3540 C (95104 F). Then
boiling water is stirred in over a 15 min. period to give a temperature of 72 C (161.6 F).
By this means the grist is hydrated and some of the thermolabile enzymes have a chance
to act before the temperature is increased to permit starch liquefaction and dextrinization
while minimizing saccharification. The mash temperature is increased to about 78 C
(172.4 F) before wort collection. The wort has an attenuation limit of only about 40%.

From Brewing- Science and Practice, 2004.

The main difference between this deliberate technique (which works on a HB scale, I know, I've done more than half a dozen of them), and the accidental result achieved by the OP is the pre-hydrolisation of the grist into a thick mash (0.1L/Kg above grain absorption). Either way, denaturing of the beta amalyse accounts for reduced fermentabilty. Another method available is the Kubessa process, but this is very different.

No such thing as imposible, if you think outside the square.

edit to remove smiley that somehow came into being of it's own accord through cut and paste.
edit v2: that being said, I maintain my opinion that unplanned low attenuation should still be treated with caution as far as bottling is concerned.

 

[churchy]

I was brewing a NZ red best bitter ale and the yeast was US-05.After adding the yeast, three days later I racked into another container and left for a week before bottling.

 

[Darren]

Short answer is "bullshit".

Hi Butters

You keg your beers, Yes?

By doing this you effectively stop ferment at whatever gravity you desire. No chance of blowing up a keg.

If I recall correctly, Churchy said he was bottling with carbonation drops?

Once partially fermented beer is transferred to bottles, the additional input of rousing and oxygen can re-start a ferment. If Churchy adds additional sugar to that bottle, it is a recipe for disaster (bottle bombs)

cheers

Darren

PS: I am a scientist who has plenty of practical experience with enzymes and the culture of various micro-organisms including a bit of mashing experience (Yes. I have read all the beer texts :icon_cheers: ).

EDIT: Just noticed that Churchy used US 56. No way that strain would stop at 1.018 unless it got too cold

 

[buttersd70]

No Darren, I don't stop fermentation by kegging....I stop fermentation by allowing the yeast to consume all the fermentable sugars, which is achieved by fermenting in primary until almost finished, then racking to secondary fermentation for approximately 3 to 5 days, until fermentation is complete. Then I chill to drop bright, and either keg or bottle. I do both. Granted, the majority is kegged. But not all.

In your own example, you state that you can get a high gravity with the addition of lactose...as you're no doubt aware you can get the same with addition of maltodextrin...and you can get the same thing by creating dextrins through high mash temperatures. Which is what I do.

When the priming sugar, be it drops or whatever, is added, the yeast will consume it and the bottle will carbonate....but adding priming sugar to it won't magically transform the remaining dextrins in the beer into fermentable sugar. It is only partially fermented if there are fermentable sugars left in it. Is your example of a beer with lactose only ever partially fermented, due to the presence of unfermented lactose? No.

And at no time did I advise Churchy that he won't, in any definate sense, have any problem with bottle bombs. In fact, the opposite. I advised that, due to it being unplanned high FG, that he should bottle with caution, and check the batch within a reasonable timeframe to allow venting of remaining bottles if it was, in fact required. So the argument is moot, and your just trolling, anyway. So pull your head in.

 

[Darren]

No Darren, I don't stop fermentation by kegging....

Hey Butters,

Pull your head in.

You do not bottle.

My second all-grain beer in bottles exploded.

cheers

Darren

PS: You are not blinding me with pseudo-science. I recall that Churchy used US-56?? Why so high??

 

[tangent]

This kind of "I know more than you do" crap is why Ahb sucks arse.

 

[Osangar]

I get 1012 consistantly from an OG of 1026-1028, even when using Nottingham....because I mash a specific way to force it to do so. If you know how to manipulate your mash in that fashion, to favour the production of dextrins over maltose, you can drop your apparant attenuation from the projected 70 (ish) % down to as low as 40% (theoretically. That being said, I've never been able to drop much below 50%).

Butters, what is the beer you are creating with this og / fg.

Is this a light or mid strength beer, or one for diabetics or something?

 

[churchy]

Now guys stop bickering.Has the high strike temp got anything to do with the FG being so high?



Andrew

 

[buttersd70]

Has the high strike temp got anything to do with the FG being so high?

Andrew

Yes, Andrew. Higher mash temp will leave more body. That will be why the yeast under attenuated.

OT, osanger, I was after a table beer, ie a light bitter.