20l Stovetop All Grain Aussie Lager

[keifer33]

Given if it was 18-22 on the fermenter temp gauge add a few more degrees on inside and that's 20-24c so its definitely possible. Recently stuffed up temperatures on my last 2 brews and it went from 1.048 - 1.010 in just under 2 days as it was at approx 24-26c inside the fermenter.

 

[RdeVjun]

boris, I wouldn't be too concerned about the low FG. A fast ferment of low- mashed wort can leave it tasting a bit ordinary and low on the good flavours we want, but should still be still excellent comparatively speaking. Often my low- mashed UK Bitters get to 1.008 and lower with high attenuators like 1469, but don't lack at all for character, I'm after a quite dry beer.

No worries keifer, I do that overnight cooling all the time, makes for a simple process, shorter brewday(s) and no extra equipment (chiller etc) plus I get the 'free' warm water to clean up with! I've also poured from the kettle into a No- Chill cube through a sieve in a big funnel, but it isn't for the feint of heart, syphoning is probably better (no HSA problems either). I'd just be wary if you're leaving it to cool un- assisted, I've not done that in- situ and if the temperature doesn't get down low enough quick enough then it may increase the bittering and offset the late additions, but seeing as No- Chill works then it should be OK. The other concern some might have is the break material, but I think we've worked out that the impact is probably minimal. If you can though, I'd recommend to pop it into the laundry/ bath tub for cooling, but it is up to you and worthwhile to try in- situ if that suits.

 

[boriskane]

hmm yeah cheers guys.

would it be best to wait a few days and then to rack, cc, prime?

or to wait for another week or so so everything settles down and the yeast do some cleaning up?

curious to know whether the flavour will mellow out further over time, or whether it will enhance, because when i tasted it it was pretty dry with no lingering of either a malty flavour or a profound bittering one.


cheers

 

[flano]

just say I get an urn for BIAB..

how do you cool the wort down down??

do i need one of those big coils things??

or can I just cling film the top and let it cool naturally?

by the way had some mates around and they loved my first effort!!!!

 

[tavas]

just say I get an urn for BIAB..

how do you cool the wort down down??

do i need one of those big coils things??

or can I just cling film the top and let it cool naturally?

by the way had some mates around and they loved my first effort!!!!

I no chill straight into a plastic 20 ltr jerry can. Add 1/2 a tablet of whirlfloc about 15 mins prior to the end of your boil, switch off and let the convection settle (about5-10 minutes), then gently begin your whirlpool and let it settle for 10 mins, then either decant off or pour from the tap.

I replaced the urn tap with a 1/2" SS ball vale with a 3/8" barbed nipple. 3/8" silicon hose slips straight onto the nipple. Drop the other end into your cube/jerry can and Bob's your mother's brother. Usual notes about sanitation yadda yadda.

Or yes you can use a chiller coil. Your preference really. I don't only because I an't be arsed.

 

[keifer33]

Well I just finished my first attempt at AG and overall quite disappointed with my results. Started out promising with perfect mash temps and time. Then came the sparging which didn't go very well at all as far as extracting sugars and ended up with around 12lts of water at 1.056 (temp corrected via beersmith). Thought it might be ok but got only 9lts into the fermenter when topped up to 20lt got me a measly 1.030/32 which was too low. Beersmith recons 50% efficiency which is s***house and after doing a handful of partials got nothing this low. So had to scrounge around and found 500g LDME which I dissolved in 1 litre of water and added it to as I calced it save my brew and bring it back up to around 1.40ish.

The chilling in the sink worked a treat and I had 10lts of pre-chilled water to go which got me spot on my temperature until I had to add the boiling water so just waiting for the fermenter to cool a few more degrees before pitching.

Think I may try again soon but will definitely get a better bag than the voile (couldnt find swiss voile in time and had to use cotton voile) one I have as it just held to much water and the crack of the grain might have been too coarse for BIAB so might look at coffee grinder for the next one.

 

[tavas]

Well I just finished my first attempt at AG and overall quite disappointed with my results. Started out promising with perfect mash temps and time. Then came the sparging which didn't go very well at all as far as extracting sugars and ended up with around 12lts of water at 1.056 (temp corrected via beersmith). Thought it might be ok but got only 9lts into the fermenter when topped up to 20lt got me a measly 1.030/32 which was too low. Beersmith recons 50% efficiency which is s***house and after doing a handful of partials got nothing this low. So had to scrounge around and found 500g LDME which I dissolved in 1 litre of water and added it to as I calced it save my brew and bring it back up to around 1.40ish.

The chilling in the sink worked a treat and I had 10lts of pre-chilled water to go which got me spot on my temperature until I had to add the boiling water so just waiting for the fermenter to cool a few more degrees before pitching.

Think I may try again soon but will definitely get a better bag than the voile (couldnt find swiss voile in time and had to use cotton voile) one I have as it just held to much water and the crack of the grain might have been too coarse for BIAB so might look at coffee grinder for the next one.

My first AG was similar. Low efficiency, low post boil volume, low OG. Tasted so bad I ended up throwing it away. 18 bottles didn't carb and 2 exploded. Wasn't anything wrong with the method per se, more in the excution. But I'll be buggered if I know what I did wrong. Keep trying. Up to my 5th batch, the taste has gone from vile to palatable, but certainly not the droolworthy that I was expecting.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

My first AG was similar. Low efficiency, low post boil volume, low OG. Tasted so bad I ended up throwing it away. 18 bottles didn't carb and 2 exploded. Wasn't anything wrong with the method per se, more in the excution. But I'll be buggered if I know what I did wrong. Keep trying. Up to my 5th batch, the taste has gone from vile to palatable, but certainly not the droolworthy that I was expecting.

Same here, it was about 45-50% IIRC.

Sat down and thought about the process and what I could do better. I now mash as a rule for 90 minutes (though my 2nd batch I didn't, and was up in the 70s with my efficiency), I split the grain bill (for a full sized batch) over 2 big w pots, and I use the mrs vegesteamer/pasta pot with insert and use that to sparge, using minimum 4L per 2-2.5kg bag. It also means that I can squeeze without holding a bag up - just push it into the bottom of the strainer and liquid goes into pot.

I suggest you sit down and think about your process and your equipment and what you can do to get better efficiency. Sorry to hear about your frustration (it is painful after the effort put in), but stick with it - we all had that first BIAB batch and I use the stovetop method (with above alterations to procedure now) and get consistently 80% efficiency.

Good luck,

Goomba

 

[tavas]

Thanks Goomba.

I've made quite a few changes from my first. I now use a 40lt urn, and have just bought a digital temp controller for it. What I do now is heat my total water, draw off my mash water (2.5l/kg) into an esky and mash for 60 mins (usually at 66*C). While that's mashing I heat the remaining water to 72*C and dunk sparge for 10 minutes. Then hoist the bag (I use a pulley above the urn), add the mash water and start the boil.

The last batch (no 5) was the first one with this method. It is still in the fermenter so I can't comment on taste, but I am pretty comfortable with method. I got 77% eff post boil (approx 26 lts). I allowed 3 ltrs for trub etc.

I also think that no chilling was causing my bitterness to go through the roof, so for this batch I hopped at 45 mins, and moved the late hops (15 g @10 and 5 mins) to one 10g addition at flame out. So hopefully that should settle it down a bit.

I realise its not really BIAB anymore. But it all started with a bag and a 19lt pot.

 

[tavas]

Dammit, can't edit. That should be one 15g addition at flame out.

 

[pk.sax]

Its not the cotton voile, I squeezed mine and it let go o the wort easily enough.

I did learn one thing from my first effort recently, don't trust the volumes given by the software. Biab needs more volume to happen properly and a 19 litre pot just isn't going to do it for you unless you are mashin low temp and either 'sparging' generously or mashing with a generous amount water. I checked the drippings from my squeezed out grain and there still was a decent amount of sugar in them, means I should've accounted for biab and small pot differences. But, importantly, tastes and smells great, just put it into 2 demijohns to crash chill, I'll bottle as soon as it clears, was extremely cloudy - another thing I need to fix. Well, I reckon it's learning to apply the process to my equipment and also refining ky equipment so I can do things more reliably. I bet ppl's satisfaction will be proportional to how close they got to their targets with them. I got 11.5 litres into the fermenter instead of the 14.5 I was calculating for. So not that unhappy, just means I need to do it a little better next time. And finding out how each improvement affects the final outcome.

I daresay you'd have to be really really good and/or really lucky to do everything perfectly the first time around.

 

[RdeVjun]

I did learn one thing from my first effort recently, don't trust the volumes given by the software. Biab needs more volume to happen properly

Yes, most brewing software isn't BIAB- aware, of that I'm quite sure, full- volume just stands it on its head, let alone sparging etc. I've got far more confidence in the guides from those that have 'been there' and 'done it' (Disclaimer- I'm a provider in that regard). However, the more consumers demand it, the more likely vendors will be willing to provide it, so shout at the vendor is my advice- they really could do to get with the times though, FFS... :huh:

 

[Nick JD]

There's no way you can make 20L of full strength beer on the stovetop. FFS.

Just thought I'd stir the pot.

The stove pot.

 

[RdeVjun]

There's no way you can make 20L of full strength beer on the stovetop. FFS.

Just thought I'd stir the pot.

The stove pot.

Indeed- there's just no way known...

 

[flano]

Geeze dunno what I did right?

Mine turned out great.

Even gave some to a seasoned home brewer who was very impressed.
He wanted me to show him what I did next time I do it.

I just followed nicks instructions .
Only thing I did different was I used JW traditional ale grain ( my LHBS didn't have what he suggested )and I put the pot into an ice slurry in the laundry tub to cool it down quicker.
..and I poured all the sludge from the pot into the fermenter by mistake.
...and the dude in the LHBS cracked the grain for me.

I am going to keep making that exact recipe .

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Geeze dunno what I did right?

Mine turned out great.

Even gave some to a seasoned home brewer who was very impressed.
He wanted me to show him what I did next time I do it.

I just followed nicks instructions .
Only thing I did different was I used JW traditional ale grain ( my LHBS didn't have what he suggested )and I put the pot into an ice slurry in the laundry tub to cool it down quicker.
..and I poured all the sludge from the pot into the fermenter by mistake.
...and the dude in the LHBS cracked the grain for me.

I am going to keep making that exact recipe .

Yup - I don't even own a coffee grinder. Just use the cracking that the LHBS (a site sponsor) gives.

I use 2 x big w pots (got the 2nd on extra-special), and this means I get 23L of good gravity (1.060 and above, if I want it) beer. Brewed a 7% Brown Ale on the stove and worked out really good.

@beernorks, may I suggest that you try a few different grains and hops. I've done a SMaSH on the stove and got great beer, but I find that I prefer a slightly more complex grain bill and at least 2 hop varieties. It goes from being *glug glug glug* "this is good" (from mates) to "wow, that is seriously good beer".

Even if you just do a 50/50 with some Pilsner Malt and Amber Malt plus maybe 10% spec malts, with some higher AA% bittering hops (as your POR will do, however I do prefer Amarillo for this - just personal taste) and some lower AA% hops for flavour at 15 minutes and flameout.

Your experienced mate will be blown away by how quickly you have picked up to brew a really good beer.

Goomba

 

[MCE]

Thanks RdeVjun, I think I will try the no-chill-kettle method this time and will invest in some extra cubes to no chill properly for my next AG. I like the idea of splitting the brew day so it doesn't take so long.

Will report back if I have any issues.

I've had some similar thoughts about breaking up my brew day. I'm in the habit of chilling the pot in a sink of ice and water so that I can get the wort into the fermenter on the one day and then forget about it until bottling. This isn't the most time consuming step so I don't think changing to no-chill would help at all.

Lately I've been thinking about splitting up the brew day right down the middle by grinding the grain and mashing/squeezing etc. on one day, leaving the pot on the stove overnight and then coming back and doing the boil the next day. I imagine that this would add to the total time as I'd need to bring the pot all the way up to the boil from room temperature, rather than 60-70 degrees, but as long as it didn't take too much longer then I reckon it would a more convenient way to do it.

As far as I can see, any bugs that may get into the (sealed) pot overnight would be well and truly boiled the next day so there shouldn't be any issue there. Has anybody tried this technique? Or have any comments on it? I might try it for my next brew so I can break it up over two evenings after work rather than taking up a whole weekend afternoon.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

I've had some similar thoughts about breaking up my brew day. I'm in the habit of chilling the pot in a sink of ice and water so that I can get the wort into the fermenter on the one day and then forget about it until bottling. This isn't the most time consuming step so I don't think changing to no-chill would help at all.

Lately I've been thinking about splitting up the brew day right down the middle by grinding the grain and mashing/squeezing etc. on one day, leaving the pot on the stove overnight and then coming back and doing the boil the next day. I imagine that this would add to the total time as I'd need to bring the pot all the way up to the boil from room temperature, rather than 60-70 degrees, but as long as it didn't take too much longer then I reckon it would a more convenient way to do it.

As far as I can see, any bugs that may get into the (sealed) pot overnight would be well and truly boiled the next day so there shouldn't be any issue there. Has anybody tried this technique? Or have any comments on it? I might try it for my next brew so I can break it up over two evenings after work rather than taking up a whole weekend afternoon.

Not sure about yur last question, but I just tasted a fermented (but not bottled) beer where I no-chilled (out of lack of prep), and it was seriously more bitter than the 35 or so IBU I'd made it to be. So I suppose I am +1 to anecdotal evidence that no-chilling does increase bitterness. If I can figure out a way to factor that in (maybe drop 60 minutes boil addition of hops), then I will, just to have another method up my sleeve. It is easier in the sense that you really done have to crash chill it, and for me that is about half an hour off. Way easier for me to wake up next morning and just pitch the yeast and go to work (as I inevitably brew on Sunday as a rule).

Goomba

 

[Nick JD]

I've had some similar thoughts about breaking up my brew day. I'm in the habit of chilling the pot in a sink of ice and water so that I can get the wort into the fermenter on the one day and then forget about it until bottling. This isn't the most time consuming step so I don't think changing to no-chill would help at all.

Lately I've been thinking about splitting up the brew day right down the middle by grinding the grain and mashing/squeezing etc. on one day, leaving the pot on the stove overnight and then coming back and doing the boil the next day. I imagine that this would add to the total time as I'd need to bring the pot all the way up to the boil from room temperature, rather than 60-70 degrees, but as long as it didn't take too much longer then I reckon it would a more convenient way to do it.

As far as I can see, any bugs that may get into the (sealed) pot overnight would be well and truly boiled the next day so there shouldn't be any issue there. Has anybody tried this technique? Or have any comments on it? I might try it for my next brew so I can break it up over two evenings after work rather than taking up a whole weekend afternoon.

I would be very worried about your wort going sour. Perhaps bring it up to the boil for a few minutes to kill the souring bugs.

 

[MCE]

I would be very worried about your wort going sour. Perhaps bring it up to the boil for a few minutes to kill the souring bugs.

Ah, yeah, good point. In light of that it may not be worth doing as I'd have to mash, bring to the boil briefly before bringing it to the boil from room temperature next day. I think the amount of time added to the total would make it not worthwhile. Maybe if I get some high-powered burner down the track then it might be feasible.