2014 July Lotto Tasting Thread

[StalkingWilbur]

No judging sheet because honestly... I'm too drunk to find a pen.

Aroma: delicious for a Kolsch. A little hoppier than a traditional style. Which I love. Pineapple. Peach. Boots.

Appearance: a little on the murkier side of cloudy. Color is good

Flavor: matches the aroma with a nice dose of pineapple. This is a kolsch that I would drink gallons of in summer.

Mouthfeel: matches the beer perfectly.

Overall: great beer. No faults. Could've been a little crisper and dryer in the finish.

Score: 37

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Menonetes' Schwartbier (which I understand to be a kit beer):

Aroma: Slightly sweet with faint roastiness. Sweetish, sherry type aroma.

Appearance: Very clear Brown-Black with a red tinge. Low head and low carbonation which does not persist.

Flavour: More roasty than style dictates. Solventy, burning higher order alcohols. Buttery diacetyl, definite twang. No hops keeping with style. Not bitter, not smooth.

Mouthfeel: Thin, burning feeling, feels like a kit stout.

Overall impression: Tastes and smells like a kit stout. Oxidised cardboardy flavour with sherry aftertaste. Burning flavour and burns on the way down. Butteriness is overdone and adds body. Very strong roasty flavour.

The numbers add up to 22, and I feel this is about 5 points too generous.

Sorry meno. Just being honest with you. The gulf between this beer and your first AG is immense and I don't think this beer is reflective of your ability either now or in the future. The AG beer was excellent, this wasn't.

 

[menoetes]

Fair enough sir, I thank you for the honest feedback. It was my first crack at a schwarzbier and it is actually all unhopped extract with steeped grains and added hops.

That burnt bitter taste is something I swear I get everytime I use black patent and black (roasted) barley. I didn't think it was too bad at first but maybe it's getting more pronounced as the beer ages... I've got to find a way around it, maybe I'll try cold-steeping with my darker special malts in future (or maybe just stop using them all-together)

It's a shame because the beer I was trying to copy; the Köstritzer Schwarzbier from the Brisbane German club, is a gorgeous drop and I fell well short of it.

Thank you again for the feedback sir. May my third contribution, the kit + partial-mash Blonde ale treat you better.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Jaypes Weizen

(AABC 16.2):

Aroma: very slightly sourdough bread like quality. Aroma is light and sweet. Slightly fruity - like juice from tinned 2 fruits.

Appearance: Cloudy. Straw, almost ginger coloured. Served mit-hefe. Head does not persist.

Flavour: Gingery, slightly fruity or bubblegummy aspect. Very understated phenols and esters. Esters and phenols are closer to a belgian (or even a little british) style than a German wheat. Carbonation is well under for style, but actually makes this beer more sessionable and less 'bloaty'. Very slightly sour funk which makes it more refreshing. Not as bread and heavy as the style dictates, but far easier to drink as a result.

Mouthfeel: Very low carbonation viz style. But as above, more drinkable and quaffable as a result. Slightly thin, not as bready as style wants. Very slight spice-like gingery warmth in the mouth.

Overall impression: Very nice beer. Misses style drastically, and if judged in a comp, this would get no more than 20. But I'm judging this as a beer first, style 2nd. Though it misses the style drastically, it more than makes up for it with drinkability. Tastes more like a ginger infused beer, with some Belgian esters - it really bears more resemblance to a ginger-wit, than a Weissbier, but sessionable and lacks the bloat I would normally associate with Weissbier.

Extra:

I really like Weissbiers and was looking forward to a weissbier when I drank this. So I was disappointed, because it is really not near the style. As I said, this isn't a 32 point beer if judged viz style (I really should have judged it as a wit or farmhouse beer, but it was explicitly a Weizen so treated as such) but it is an excellent beer in its own right. Very refreshing, very good for summer, very quaffable. I'd enter this as a specialty beer in a comp. The one problem I have with Weizens is that I struggle to have more than 500ml of it, because it's like 4 loaves of bread in my stomach after I drink it. This does not have this issue, so I could have knocked back a few glasses of this (as it stood, I went through this pretty damn quick).

Thanks heaps Jaypes, great beer.

 

[Grainer]

Any more reviews Fellas??

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

n87 - Nelson Sauvin Summer Ale - pretty much judged on merit with a half-eye kept on the American Wheat and American Pale Ale guidelines:

Aroma: Subdued malt and not much hops. Esters of a spicy nature comes through on the nose (later realised it was likely 'hot' alcohol').

Appearance: My fault it isn't clearer - I decanted this poorly. Cloudy wheat like appearance and pale in colour.

Flavour: Slightly winey consistent with use of Nelson Sauvin, but it tastes like that's not the only thing contributing to it. Hopping is VERY subdued. More spiced esters on the palate with appley flavour. Slight alcoholic warmth.

Mouthfeel: Body low-medium. No faults with body (eg DMS/Diacetyl). Carbonation spot on and refreshing but not overdone. But the warmth comes through in an unpleasant way.

Overall Impression: Not too bad. The warmth is off putting a little add as spiciness that increases as it warms up. Faults are easily fixed because underneath those faults is a top bear waiting to break out. Wheat and Nelson is pretty good, but I think the 'over cooked ferment' has subdued them too much. Spot on without the faults for the lawnmower beer it was intended to be, but the higher alcohol flavours and abv% put it off.

Additional to the scoring:

This beer has some fairly prominent faults. However, I think that these are actually easily fixed. This beer has been run too hot (and/or; the yeast was stressed out during the early ferment and underpitched) relative to the yeast that is chosen and that has wiped out more Nelson Sauvin than needed and given unpleasant and overdone spiciness.

If was looking for solutions to fix the beer (other than it was too high OG, and that affected balance when fermented) - certainly look at the temp it was fermented at (or a different yeast - I'm thinking that either a lager yeast at lower temps or an ale yeast at 16-18 degrees would be ideal, yeast pitching rate or something else that stressed the yeast out - s/a run too high or low to start with before it got down to ferment temp) and the balance of hops relative to the body. Either a considerable amount more Nelson Sauvin (some early, some late) to adjust for the higher OG; or, fix the OG down to what you'd intended and use a brew calculator to get the hops dilution calculation right.

Underneath these faults, is an excellent beer. Body was where it needed to be, so fixing up yeast handling and ensuring hops vs malt balance is where you want it to be will turn this beer into an excellent refreshing summer quaffer.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Menonetes "de saazy blonde" 4.4%.

I've judged this as a cross between an American Pale and a British Bitter, though with a loose interpretation of style guidelines and more a focus on the beer's quality and taste.

Aroma: Clean Malty aroma with caramel and slightly toffee flavour (but NOT diacetyl). Faint hoppy smell of a British x American Citrus nature. NO esters.

Appearance: Beautifully clear and see through (pic doesn't do it justice). Low head and low retention of head. Low for an APA but medium-high for a bitter - again it suited the beer and was judged accordingly. Again - carbonation was excellent.

Flavour: Malty on palate with faint hoppiness - enough bitterness to cut through any sweetness of the malt, yet retains a good maltiness. Hops are a sort of English flavour with a slight American citrus appeal - certainly all I've heard of NZ "Saaz" is contained nicely in this beer and this really showcases good use of these qualities (not 'strong' enough to be American but very much treated with English sensibleness). Bitter enough and very quaffable.

Mouthfeel: Low medium body with similar carbonation. Doesn't bloat when drunk (feels good to drink a few without feeling 'full'). The lack of diacetyl really aids the mouthfeel and drinkability.

Overall Impression: Very good beer with no obvious flaws. Tastes like a bitter with a bit of a difference (say that quickly and the pun becomes apparent). Fairly familiar maltiness of an English beer with the faint citrus more associated with American beers. Very quaffable, balanced and well done. This is how a 'crossbred beer' should be. It retains the sensibilities of the English with just a faint amount of Americanness - the Winston Churchill of beers. The NZ hops are everything that they purport to be - European Origin and feel but with a little new world brashness. If judged as an English Bitter, no one would pick up anything but a British beer.

 

[menoetes]

Cheers Sir, I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Those kiwi D saaz hops are bloody nice, it's just a shame they are so hard to get ones hands on.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Fat ******* Black IPA:

Aroma: Punchy Citrus (Citra hop????????) Aroma with no discernible maltiness or 'blackness' or roastiness. No esters. If any malt, overcome by the hop aroma.

Appearance: Dark, clarity is excellent where glass is thin enough to see it, with a reddish hue. Tan head, which does not persist.

Flavour: Good hoppy flavour which is balance out by some body and a touch of roastiness. The faintest touch of diacetyl but doesn't detract from the beer. Bitter with a faint roasted stoutness that remains submitted to the hops. Hop profile is perfectly balanced and reflects the balance typical in commercial Black IPAs.

Mouthfeel: Good, would have been helped by some more carbonation. Some diacetyl but faint still and not unpleasant. Not too full on the palate which aids quaffability.

Overall Impression: Great beer, for my tastes I would have liked a little more late hops (either late kettle or cube hopped if applicable) but that is a purely personal thing (not reflective of the quality of the beer). This beer reflects accepted practice viz construction of a commercial Black IPA. The big factor is that the amount and intensity of the Black Roasted aroma and taste is spot on - enough to differentiate it from an IPA, but not too much to render it an American Stout. Top Effort.

 

[Fat Bastard]

Wow, that was fast. Thanks for the tops feedback on this one! It's the first time I've brewed this recipe and as such the feed back is extremely valuable.
The carbonation is a bit of an issue, I'm only decanting from the tap via a hose as I don't have a CPBF or similar. I can't taste the diacetyl myself, but I'll believe you that it's there. I would have liked it a bit dryer than it finished up at, for my taste it's a bit too full.

Thanks for the super feedback, and I'm glad you enjoyed it. I'll let you know what the show judges think of it.

Thanks again!

FB

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Luggy's Sparking Ale with a bottle date of 20/7.

Aroma: Cardboard and apple like aroma with some "scotch" like aromas - almost woody.

Appearance: Pours cloudy despite bing upright in fridge for some days and being decanted carefully. Head is excellent and persistent.

Flavour: Some higher order alcohols in the finish, Aceyltahyde was prominent and dominated the palate, over any hops that may be there or the malt. Tasted oxidised and a bit of DMS. Slight sourness. No diacetyl.

Mouthfeel: Warms and alcohol costs points but aside from that the body holds up well and indicates a good mash and the basis of a good beer which is let down by some fermentation faults.

Overall Impression: Fermentation issues and poor yeast handling are an obvious issue, but underneath is a good beer. Mash regime is good and you have the balance correct (indicating a good base recipe), with use of hops and malt good. Lack of diacetyl further adds to good body perception.

Extra comments: I know this is your 2nd or 3rd AG beer. I found that when I started AG, I was so obsessed with the AG process (especially mashing and hopping), that I ignored the importance of yeast and ended up with beers similar to this (and not always - it was hit and miss). Get the yeast right - right temperature, right treatment, right yeast for what you are trying to achieve and right amount of yeast. Yeast turns wort into beer. You have wort production sorted out well (which means the AG thing is working for you), it just seems that the next step (converting your liquor into beer) isn't quite there yet. Don't despair, I produced beers like this when I started out. You will sort the extra details out and go onto big things!

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Fat Bastards Bourbon Vanilla Porter:

Aroma: Prominent Bourbon aroma but never harsh, which is hiding what is a balanced porter underneath. Nil roast. Nice fruity woody dark fruitcake type aroma.

Appearance: Very dark - appears on the edges to be reddish clear. Low head dissipates fairly quickly - head retention (or lack thereof) is a necessary byproduct of low carbonation which, to me, is what is needed for this beer.

Flavour: Gorgeous Oaky woody bourbon flavour supported by a nice dark beer with no roast, giving it a fruitcake taste. Not harsh or alcholic despite bourbon. Very balanced and sips nicely. As it warms, the body comes through. Vanilla is subtle but really good and comes through at the back of the palate after the bourbon wears off.

Mouthfeel: Good. Doesn't feel too thick despite flavours going on, nor too thing (and therefore solventy). Body supports the flavours well. Low carbonation works for the beer and avoids a 'prickly' aspect from over-carbonation.

Overall Impression: Love this beer! It ticks all the boxes for me. No aspect overwhelms the beer nor is it underwhelming by being boring or clouded in execution. No pickable faults, which is hard to achieve in these style of beers where faults can be more prominent and easy to pick. Balance is perfect and beer develops its profile as it warms. The big tick for me is that it doesn't burn and there is no roasted acridness. Well done!

 

[Fat Bastard]

Cheers LRJ I!

For some feedback on your feedback, I think you've nailed it with this one. This is a beer I've brewed 3 times now, and you've captured exactly what I was going for with it. Your descriptors fit my taste of it better than the last feedback sheets I got from the 2013 NSW comp, although interestingly they gave it the same score. This year's brew has been recieved better than last's by the Northern Beaches Brew Club, so I have high hopes for this one in the comp this year.

Again, will let you know how it goes so you can compare your feedback to their's.

Cheers,

FB

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Look forward to the feedback comparison. I don't know if I have the time to do the judging qualifications but good to see how my palate stacks up in quantitative and descriptive terms.

Hoping all brewers and especially those in the lotto are benefiting from the feedback. I'm taking this seriously and not treating as just free beer.

 

[Fat Bastard]

For mine, I think your judging is both fair and honest... as a former lotto winner, the hardest part was to be critical of beer that has been given freely! Admittedly I really do believe that most of the beers I got were of a very high standard, although I think I started out scoring too highly, and towards the end I was giving out scores with less than an approriate amount of thought behind them due to some very heavy personal shit going on at the time.

That being said, the same names have turned up in your high scorer's list as did mine, so we seem to be at least on the same page...

 

[n87]

Look forward to the feedback comparison. I don't know if I have the time to do the judging qualifications but good to see how my palate stacks up in quantitative and descriptive terms.

Hoping all brewers and especially those in the lotto are benefiting from the feedback. I'm taking this seriously and not treating as just free beer.

was a bit miffed that one of mine scored lowly, but your feedback hits right on some of the problems i had during fermentation, so it makes sense.
and helps me determine which tastes are caused by what.

but could you score my next one higher? :lol:

 

[luggy]

Thanks for the feedback LRG, really appreciate it. I was hesitant to send you that beer as I had issues with fermentation, thought it would be better to send you something I made than something I bought. Hopefully you like the stout a bit better.
Cheers

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Okay dokay, writing reviews on my tablet - we're between 2 houses - effectively 3, don't ask.

NealK Bourbon Vanilla Porter.

Aroma: lightly roasted and bourbon aroma with no noticeable 'body' aroma underneath. No esters, no hops in aroma. Very slight woodinesd which could be mistaken for 'multigrain' aroma which increases as it warms.

Appearance: not very clear (though flavour doesn't betray yeastiness or wheat like flavours) low head which persists as lace. Brown colour of coke.

Flavour: tastes ‘not as dark as it looks - the same way a black IPA'. Slight roastiness which dries it out but retains smoothness. Bourbon comes through as it warms. Slight woodiness on the palate. Finishes medium-dry, which makes this very sessionable. No flaws detected no sulphur, acidity/sourness and no diacetyl. Tastes like a very neutral ferment, no esters and no hops.

Mouthfeel: low-medium with similar carbonation. Not sweet or thick in the mouth. Body aids sessionability, no alcohol.

Overall impression: good beer. Was expecting more oomph from a BVP which might explain the harsh score as it cost it points from a qualitative point of view but that doesn't take away from it being an excellent beer - subtle, slightly complex but not overly so - very sessionable and very well constructed. Woodier and less bourbon than other examples, no vanilla of note but that is what makes this something you can sink pint after pint after pint.


Extra note: this is the second BVP I've had and it amazes me that two beers with such a specific mandate can vary so much and both be very well executed beers. Beer and brewers are amazing.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Just a wee update.

Those who haven't sent through, check the PMs, as I'll be moving around a bit over the next 3 weeks before it settles down again.

An update on the beer:

The gap between the good beers, the average and the 'needs attention' beers is bigger than my scores are indicating. The average ones tend to be scoring in the 20's and yet the needs attention ones are scoring in the late teens/very early 20's or there about. I think this is the anomale of trying to quantify a qualitative and subjective process.

Because to me, the gap between the average and the 'needs attention' beers is at least 10 points, if not more, and yet, that reflects the number gap assigned between the average and the good ones (which are far closer in actual fact in terms of quality). There are only 'tweaks' needed between average and good, whereas the needs attention beers are significant in terms of addressing what the issues are.

The biggest thing this has confirmed? That yeast handling is a massive contributor to brewing excellent beer. All the beers in the needs attention list have been well constructed beers, nothing wrong with first, second, third AG in terms of wort production at all (signifying to me that 'going AG' needn't be scary at all) and appear to be good recipes underneath. Yet they really fall down on yeast handling. All the massive faults have been yeast handling related and confirmed by some of the brewers with these problems.

Temp control, good choice of yeast, good handling are imperative to all brewers.

 

[luggy]

Keep up the good work mate, you're doing a great job giving constructive feedback about the brews