1st Decoction Day Results

[SJW]

%100 SUCCESS.
What a great day. In the end it only added about an hour to the day, as I saved that hour heating up strike water. So I mashed in for a 52 rest. I left that for 15 mins then pulled out a bit more than a 3rd of the mash for the first decoction. I need to refine that as it was a bit messy but I took all grain with a seive and just added enough mash water to cover the grain. Then I took it in and did the decoction on the gas stove inside. I heated to 65 and left it there for 20 mins. It went from being all milky to a clear wort, then I boiled it for 20mins. When I dumped it back into the mash I hit 65 deg C and left that for 30mins. Then I pulled out another 3rd and boiled it out on the kettle burner (italian spiral) for mash out. I then recirculated but was surprised to find there was no protein/jelly stuff on the mash after I drained to the kettle. I sparged twice and was thinking this has gone all tits up. But my pre boil gravity was up and I ended up hitting 80% + eff.
During the first 15mins of the boil I ran off 1500mls of the wort for my starter. Cooled it to 12 deg C and added some 2124 Wyeat left over from the Otoberfest and within 30mins it was going nuts. So after pitching the started I had airlock activity almost from the start and krusen after 4 hours. Its now fermenting away madly at 10.5 deg C.
So I hope it comes out good and as for decoctions.......................not bad. Makes the day a bit more interesting, keeps you busy and your mind on the job. And being alcohol free July there was no mid brew drinking to cloud my judgement.
I might give a tripple decoction a go next with a Pils.
This was my recipe for Saturdays brew. I started at 8 and was packed up and finished at 2. Not bad.

Steve

#67 Dortmunder
Dortmunder Export Lager

Type: All Grain
Date: 12/07/2008
Batch Size: 26.00 L
Brewer: Stephen Wright
Boil Size: 33.33 L Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 75 min Equipment: Keg - Lager
Taste Rating(out of 50): 0.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
5000.00 gm Premium Pilsner (Weyermann) (2.2 EBC) Grain 84.75 %
500.00 gm Vienna Malt (Weyermann) (5.9 EBC) Grain 8.47 %
200.00 gm Caramunich I (Weyermann) (100.5 EBC) Grain 3.39 %
200.00 gm Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann) (3.9 EBC) Grain 3.39 %
35.00 gm Northern Brewer [6.50 %] (60 min) Hops 21.6 IBU
30.00 gm Saaz [4.00 %] (15 min) Hops 5.7 IBU
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Bohemian Lager (Wyeast Labs #2124) Yeast-Lager


Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.054 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.056 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.015 SG Measured Final Gravity: 0.000 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.04 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.00 %
Bitterness: 27.3 IBU Calories: 0 cal/l
Est Color: 9.7 EBC Color: Color

Mash Profile

Mash Name: Decoction Mash, Double Total Grain Weight: 5900.00 gm
Sparge Water: 21.24 L Grain Temperature: 22.2 C
Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C TunTemperature: 22.2 C
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Decoction Mash, Double Step Time Name Description Step Temp
10 min Protein Rest Add 18.00 L of water at 55.7 C 52.0 C
30 min Saccharification Decoct 6.37 L of mash and boil it 66.0 C
10 min Mash out Decoct 6.43 L of mash and boil it 76.0 C

 

[AndrewQLD]

Glad to see your day went well Steve, and you scored a bonus by hitting your temps so easily too.

Did you notice a difference in the malt aroma or was it pretty much the same as usual? I'll be interested to see how well this brew attenuates so could you post back after fermentation with more details please?

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Weizguy]

See, it's not that difficult.

I made a single-decocted weissbier yesterday, but my brew-day was a little longer than yours.
Mind you, it's all about having fun and taking your time while having fun.
I cooked myself a couple of meals in between, and sanitised some bottles for the HAG swap.
Also re-calculated and weighed some hops. Adjusted the bitterness of late hops and increased the bittering addition to compensate.
Only one beer was consumed during the preparation of this Weissbier.

Best of luck with your triple decoction. I plan one myself soon.

Beerz
Les

 

[hockadays]

Nice work, good that you hit your temp of 65 straight off as well. Should be a good tasting beer.

 

[SJW]

Thanks guys, I will report back on how it ends up. There did not appear to be much extra malt aroma.......well no more than u would expect boiling in the house. I still suspect that it's not worth the extra trouble given the quality malt we use these days but if nothing else it was fun and I hit a few extra gravity points and pulled out some wort for starters, as I am a liquid yeast :wacko: master now

Steve

 

[SJW]

Well I am drinking this one now and I must say that there does not appear to be much diff to a single infusion. Head retention is nothing special, good malt flavour, not as clear as the double infusion Oktoberfest I am drinking. At least I hit a few extra gravity points.
I don't think I would go out of my way to do Decoctions all the time but it did make the brew day fun, as theres not much to do with a March pump in the brewery.


Steve

 

[yardy]

well done Steve :icon_cheers:

i've never given it a crack but i'd like to, just to have a go at something different, i've got a wyeast 2575 kolsch sitting idle in the fridge that i need to master as well, so that's two you've got up on me

Cheers
Yard

 

[drsmurto]

Nice work Steve!

I did my first decoction last month too. A simple 100% wey pils Bo Pils that it lagering away. Didnt have quite as much success as you at hitting temps but nothing a bit of boiling water didnt fix.. yet to taste the results but if the smell of the boiling mash is anything to go by i am very excited.

I will also be giving a triple decoction a go in the not too distant future after doing a double decoction munich dunkel on the weekend. It certainly is fun!

 

[Dr Gonzo]

Well I am drinking this one now and I must say that there does not appear to be much diff to a single infusion.

Steve,

I notice that your lager was less than a month from grain to brain. I wouldn't expect any lager to be at its best after such a short time.
A decent lagering period is epecially important for decoction mashed lagers. I leave mine for at least 6 weeks at 0 degrees.
Sample it every week and see how it develops along the way.
I have done many trials between single infusion, step mash and decoction, and for me the decocted beers win hands down in every aspect.

 

[warra48]

I'm not a lager brewer.
Having said that, I am a fan of wheats, and love the extra malt character I can get from decocted hefe and dunkelweizens.
Glad to see your day went so well.

 

[SJW]

Steve,

I notice that your lager was less than a month from grain to brain. I wouldn't expect any lager to be at its best after such a short time.
A decent lagering period is epecially important for decoction mashed lagers. I leave mine for at least 6 weeks at 0 degrees.
Sample it every week and see how it develops along the way.
I have done many trials between single infusion, step mash and decoction, and for me the decocted beers win hands down in every aspect.

Thats encouraging news. I do have reservations about doing protein rests now, esspecially after reading this in J. Palmers book.

"Moderately-modified malts benefit from a protein rest to break down any remnant large proteins into smaller proteins and amino acids as well as to further release the starches from the endosperm. Fully-modified malts have already made use of these enzymes and do not benefit from more time spent in the protein rest regime. In fact, using a protein rest on fully modified malts tends to remove most of the body of a beer, leaving it thin and watery. Most base malt in use in the world today is fully modified."

Anyways, its all good, and I will give a tripple decoction a go but I suspect I will end up doing sigle step infustion at say 67 and the pull out a decoction for mash out.


Steve

 

[drsmurto]

Steve,

I notice that your lager was less than a month from grain to brain. I wouldn't expect any lager to be at its best after such a short time.
A decent lagering period is epecially important for decoction mashed lagers. I leave mine for at least 6 weeks at 0 degrees.
Sample it every week and see how it develops along the way.
I have done many trials between single infusion, step mash and decoction, and for me the decocted beers win hands down in every aspect.

If it wasn't for the sampling i dont think i would have the patience to lager for 6 weeks. But with supplies up i am going to let this one sit for the full 6 weeks before kegging it.

As for decoctions, i really didnt find it to be that much effort. I used the NASA next to the mash tun so no going in and out of the house.

Will let you know when its ready for a tasting Sam.

 

[Dr Gonzo]

Steve,

If you are concened about excessive protein degradation then my reccomendation would be to mash in at 55C or higher, stir well, let sit for no more than 5 min, stir well again, then pull the decoction and bring up to conversion temp as quick as possible. This way the decocted part never spends much time at the protein rest temp.

I would avoid doing a single decoction at the end to perform a mash-out. Better to use the decoction to go from mash-in temp to sacc temp.

My typical mash schedule would be something like:

Mash in at 50-55C, stir well.
Pull decoction shortly after.
Raise temp to 63C, rest 10 min.
Raise temp to 72C, rest 10 min.
Bring to boil, boil 15-20 min.
Return to main mash, aiming for 63C.
Rest 20 min.
Either draw another decoction (boil only, no intermediate rests), or direct fired temperature step to 72C.
Rest 20 min.
Either draw another decoction (liquid only, no grain), boil and return for mash-out, or temperature step for mash-out.
Rest 10-15 min.
A lot of slow recirculation, followd by a very slow sparge. If your runnings are not extremely clear then you are sparging too fast.

Hope this is of use to you, and encourages you to give the triple a go.

Mark,

Definately keen for a tasting.
I kegged that APA the other day. Didn't notice any off flavours from the burnt grains.
Probably due to the 40+ IBU's and the big bucket of Amarillo towards the end.
I sat there chucking in pellets almost constantly from about 15 min down to flame-out.
You'll have to drop in sometime and have a taste of it.

 

[BenH]

Dr Gonzo is well known in Adelaide circles for his mastery of decoctions. :chug: And he produces very good beers as such. The above is sound advice. I know I'll be following it when I have my first go at a decoction! :beer:

 

[Effect]

Have a watch of this guys videos...

He is from the american www.homebrewtalk.com forum



There are 3 videos

 

[SJW]

Thanks guys I will give that a try next time for sure.

Steve