18 hour ferment?

[Bellyup]

Hi guys,
I had bought some liquid Irish yeast to make a Grainfather AG beer with an Irish mate.
He choose to do an Old Speckled Hen clone, not my favourite but ok, let's try.
A search on Beersmith came up with a few, the most interesting had both Demarara sugar and Golden Syrup....I'm thinking to get that slight burnt toffee note.
Nowhere could I find when to add the sugar and syrup but reading around suggested to add it as a late addition, so 20 min and 5 min respectively. 20 g of sugar and 380 g of syrup with a standard grain bill. O.G was 1050, a little lower than estimated.

Here's where it went strange - I pitched the yeast at 25 deg.C with oxygen, came back next day and nothing, a bit of sweat on the lid but the wort looked dead, no foam no sign of anything happening.

Worried that the yeast was a dud, I put a pack of MJ dark uk ale yeast on top. I came back next day and could see the fermenter had a dark krousen coating under the lid but the airlock wasn't bubbling.

Four days later and still no more action. The Gravity is 1014. The whole ferment happened in about 18 hours and then stopped dead.
Never seen anything like it, has this happened to anyone else?
Keen to hear your thoughts.
Bruce.

 

[captain crumpet]

Did you take gravity reading after seeing the condensation or did you assume nothing was happening because you had no bubbles in your bubbler?

Condensation has always been a sign of fermentation for me, not every yeast strain makes for a monster krausen. If you had no bubbles you probably had a leak in a seal.

Was it one vial/pack of yeast or did you make a starter? The added yeast cells would have helped it finish even quicker. You pitched at 25c, did you drop the temp at any point after this?

 

[wynnum1]

If you used liquid Irish yeast 25 deg.C with oxygen would think plenty of yeast if yeast starts multiplying because of the oxygen did a re pitch of yeast from a previous brew and put in 22 deg.C too hot and it was way done the next day .Golden Syrup is invert sugar so would ferment very quickly.

 

[fdsaasdf]

It sounds to me like your initial pitch had already commenced fermenting, as captain crumpet suggests the only reliable way to know if fermentation has occurred is by measuring the gravity.

As far as fermentation speed records go US-05 and WLP090 are both very fast when they're happy - have often dropped 40-50 points in 48-72hrs at 19 or 20 degrees.

 

[Bellyup]

Did you take gravity reading after seeing the condensation or did you assume nothing was happening because you had no bubbles in your bubbler?

Condensation has always been a sign of fermentation for me, not every yeast strain makes for a monster krausen. If you had no bubbles you probably had a leak in a seal.

Was it one vial/pack of yeast or did you make a starter? The added yeast cells would have helped it finish even quicker. You pitched at 25c, did you drop the temp at any point after this?

I used a Wyeast Irish yeast pack, smacked the nutrient bag and left if some a couple of hours but in retrospect there wasn't much swelling.
25 deg C was the best I could get it down, and no temp. control afterwards.
I have never used an Irish yeast before .... perhaps as you suggest it doesn't make a song and dance about fermenting and just gets on with it.

 

[Bellyup]

It sounds to me like your initial pitch had already commenced fermenting, as captain crumpet suggests the only reliable way to know if fermentation has occurred is by measuring the gravity.

As far as fermentation speed records go US-05 and WLP090 are both very fast when they're happy - have often dropped 40-50 points in 48-72hrs at 19 or 20 degrees.

It may well have commenced, it just looked so dead....not a fleck of anything on the surface and the bubbler fluid had gone slightly backwards. It just looked wrong.

 

[Bellyup]

I'll give it a few more days and check the readings again.
The 1014 reading was quite hazy to look at in the hydrometer vial.
Tasting the sample, the toffee note was there, maybe a bit in your face but early days. The mouthfeel was lightish, maybe from invert sugars.
Do you reckon a bit of dry hopping with East Kent Golding would hurt?

 

[pcqypcqy]

Isn't Guiness famous for very fast ferments? That might be more of a commercial / throughput consideration rather than quality.

But hey, if your gravity has changed and it doesn't taste infected, then the yeast did its thing. Happy days.

 

[Bellyup]

Probably the worst beer I have ever made. Even my Irish mate wouldn't drink it.
There must have been some nasty chemical reaction because I had a slight allergic reaction after tasting it - chest / lungs went tight and nose started running, not good.
Anyway, staying away from wierd additions to beer.

 

[MHB]

The amount of Sugar and Golden Syrup you have added isn't the problem, yeast will make the same products from those sugars as it will from wort sugars (mostly Maltose).
I suspect you have a really extreme infection. There are all sorts of bugs out there, some produce some very interesting chemicals, ranging from Antibiotics that save lives to Botulism, the most toxic substance known.

Small sugar additions like your ~325g addition are usually called kettle sugars, traditionally they are added to the boil (kettle) about 10 minutes from the end, just to sterilise them.
Your very small (about 10% of fermentables) just cant account for what has happened - a massive infection does!

A very trougher cleaning and sterilising of all your equipment is called for, I would even consider tossing in a cheap K&K brew just to see if it survives untainted. Any sign of the infection persisting and its toss all your plastic time. A good clean brew and problem solved.
Mark

 

[Coodgee]

Probably the worst beer I have ever made. Even my Irish mate wouldn't drink it.
.

I would have thought he would be more discerning when it comes to his Irish beers! Are you suggesting the Irish are all piss heads?? hahaha

 

[Bellyup]

My experience is an unqualified YES