100L 1V BIAB recirc build - The BREWT

[buckerooni]

Inspired by this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5SLwDvmil4

Moving up from a 40L urn that has served me well. Looked at the grainfather/robobrew but wanted bigger volumes and besides, buying one of those kinda felt like cheating.

Will be a learning experience, please be gentle.

The BREWT will be:
- quite simple and easy to clean
- heat quickly (for 3.5 hr school night brewing)
- do triple batches
- automated
- generally kick ***

BREWT Basics:

• Cheeky Peak 100L Pot - 100ltr Food Grade 304 Stainless Steel Pot, Single Base Pot. Good quality, good price and I got good service from these guys when asking questions.
• Brauduino - got one already assembled - thanks CoxR! Sparky mate looked over it. All good!
• Pump with SS head - seems the consensus the SS head is worth it
• 3 piece taps - for ease of cleaning
• SS Camlocks for flexibility, good flow and ease of use
• 2 Way winch for good control of grainbag/malt pipe lift - http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/272012784431

Budget - $1,200 feels about right, most likely buying everything new.

Diagram to come!

 

[buckerooni]

turns out the BREWT is already taken as the product name for a tea infuser. Too bad, prepared to fight it out in court and/or carpark.

 

[tj2204]

Very interested in your build as I'd like to do the same thing down the track when money and time permit.

Subscribed!

 

[buckerooni]

Gonna start KISS style. Want to minimise fittings in the pot. My thinking is, more fittings more leaks, more places for scunge to hide, more cleaning.

That means a malt pipe is out of the equation for now. With a distributed recirc via a sprayer, can I get enough wort movement through the grain bed?



here's the sprayer I have in mind. SS, very simple design, should disperse the wort well and should not clog:


ebay link: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/1-4-1-2-3-4-SS316-Stainless-Steel-Spiral-Cone-Spray-Nozzle-Sprinkler-Heads-/252181802528

I'm thinking having the widest grain bed possible with this spray nozzle will allow the wort to recirc through it reasonably evenly, thoughts?

 

[timmi9191]

I dont understand spraying the wort on recirc, wouldnt that cause hotside oxidation?

 

[mofox1]

Looks pretty cool - will the nozzle spray at the recirc wort flow rate?

It mentions btwn 0.5 - 1.5 CBM/H (which I assume is kilo-litres per hour) which at its lowest boundary is just a tab under 10L/min. The keg king pumps will do 19L/min at 0m head and no back pressure... I reckon (aka - guessing, haven't measured, don't take me seriously I'm a cat with a keyboard) my recirc at open throttle is ~5L/min - it's certainly not as fast as my HLT water re-circ but it is significantly faster than my mostly throttled sparge rate of 0.75L/min.

A poke around ebay does list some at 5L/min... my guess is the smaller dia nozzles would work better than the larger ones at a lowish flow rate.

 

[SBOB]

I dont understand spraying the wort on recirc, wouldnt that cause hotside oxidation?

dont start that myth

 

[Kingy]

Look forward to watching this, I love build threads.

Temp probe should be on the outlet at the bottum tho as that is the best point to check temp. Unless I'm reading the diagram wrong.

 

[husky]

I'd say leave the temp probe at the last point before it returns to the grain bed as that way you account for temp loss through the suction and discharge lines.

 

[Moad]

Similar to what I just built a mate

 

[SBOB]

Similar to what I just built a mate

IMG-20160608-WA0000.jpeg

using a biab setup, or more a grainfather like setup?

 

[enoch]

Not sure about return probe attached to the lid. An accident waiting to happen and get in the way if you want to stir mash.
I did the a gf variant per my gallery.
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/gallery/album/1339-enochs-great-malt-mother/

 

[buckerooni]

Looks pretty cool - will the nozzle spray at the recirc wort flow rate?

It mentions btwn 0.5 - 1.5 CBM/H (which I assume is kilo-litres per hour) which at its lowest boundary is just a tab under 10L/min. The keg king pumps will do 19L/min at 0m head and no back pressure... I reckon (aka - guessing, haven't measured, don't take me seriously I'm a cat with a keyboard) my recirc at open throttle is ~5L/min - it's certainly not as fast as my HLT water re-circ but it is significantly faster than my mostly throttled sparge rate of 0.75L/min.

A poke around ebay does list some at 5L/min... my guess is the smaller dia nozzles would work better than the larger ones at a lowish flow rate.

Trying to follow this as I didn't give flow rate much thought, as I'm new to recirc. Are you saying that if the flow rate is under 10L/min the sprayer may not er..spray correctly? And that your typical flow rate through a mash is around 5L/min?

For $10 I'll probably just suck it and see and report back.

 

[buckerooni]

dont start that myth

Was waiting for that one. I'm going with what this guy observed: http://brulosophy.com/2014/11/18/is-hot-side-aeration-fact-or-fiction-exbeeriment-results/

 

[buckerooni]

Similar to what I just built a mate

IMG-20160608-WA0000.jpeg

Sweet! Are there any shots from inside?

Looks like alot of builds have the lower return, from what I understand this is to potentially stop scorching at lower temps? Planning on going with low density elements and wondering if I need to bother with it?

 

[buckerooni]

Not sure about return probe attached to the lid. An accident waiting to happen and get in the way if you want to stir mash.
I did the a gf variant per my gallery.
http://aussiehomebrewer.com/gallery/album/1339-enochs-great-malt-mother/

Yeah, it's not an ideal placement for practicality but I feel it's the best place to measure the temp. Was going to chase it along the silicone hose to where my pump and PID will be mounted.

The pot lid will rest on the handles at 90 degrees, so I need to place the probe fitting accordingly.

 

[SBOB]

I'd say leave the temp probe at the last point before it returns to the grain bed as that way you account for temp loss through the suction and discharge lines.

id say put it at the outlet from the base of the pot, as that will be the hottest point and most accurate indication of the highest temperature in the wort (and therefore enzyme activity)

 

[mofox1]

Trying to follow this as I didn't give flow rate much thought, as I'm new to recirc. Are you saying that if the flow rate is under 10L/min the sprayer may not er..spray correctly? And that your typical flow rate through a mash is around 5L/min?

For $10 I'll probably just suck it and see and report back.

Yup, not my most eloquent post.

I was wondering if your setup would be operating under the minimum pressure of the listed sprayer, and thus not work as expected. Ie your sprayer just becomes a dribbler.

Yes, 5L/min is my best guess for recirc rate without actually measuring... should really get around to that one day.

 

[husky]

id say put it at the outlet from the base of the pot, as that will be the hottest point and most accurate indication of the highest temperature in the wort (and therefore enzyme activity)

Everyone's will behave slightly different, my 1V has a temp probe in pump suction, pump discharge and one in the vessel sidewall and I tried using all of them as the PID input to see which one gave the best result. When I was testing I also had three additional thermometers measuring the temp of the wort at the bottom middle and top. Mine gave the best results when reading the return back into the vessel but were only talking a difference of .5 of a degree so you can always measure what you're actually getting in the wort and use an offset, ie use a SP of 0.5 degrees higher than what you want. In the end I used the average temperature calculation of the three as the PID input and I get a distributed temp variance of 0.1 degrees at any point in the vessel. Of course recirculation flow rate has a lot to do with this as well so it should be considered when designing a return system to get max flow with out compacting the bed.
Either way will work, if you take the temp off the bottom of the vessel you risk having a lower temp at the top of the wort. Take temp off the return and you risk having a higher temp at the bottom of the wort. Either way a basic test on your trial brew measuring temp at all points in the vessel will determine any offset if required.
Another consideration might be that if you use the temp at the return back to the vessel and you get a blockage ie no flow, your PID will see a drop in temp and ramp up the heating = potentially bad. If you put your temp probe close to the heater element and you get a blockage the PID will back off as the temp at the bottom of the vessel rises sharply. Food for thought.

 

[mash head]

I built a similar rig but much bigger, my fluid return comes out above the grain bed but below the fluid, also I am using gas so need the recirc to avoid scorching but your plan seems to be resonable.