Young's Double Chocolate Stout

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Thunderlips

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Bringing this one up again....

As far as stout kits go, I was quite happy with the bog standard Coopers kit I made a few years back.

Once it's kegged could you just add chocolate essence?
Has anyone tried it?
How much essence would you add?
 

Luxo_Aussie

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Bringing up an old thread rather than starting a new one... What would be a good yeast to go for Young's Double Chocolate Stout? I've got a book telling me to go with wyeast 1768 (English Special Bitter) or 1968 (London ESB) but I'm leaning towards 1318 (London Ale III) after some reading online.

Any ideas on the best yeast for a Sweet Stout?
 

MHB

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There is a very good version of this beer in the BYO 250 Recipe book.
Haven't got mine handy and cant remember the yeast recommended. The grain bill was very simple Pale, Light Crystal and Chocolate Malt, Fuggle at 60 minutes and a small addition of Golding late.
Will dig the book up (might take a couple of days) and let you know the yeast.
Oh Lactose and Sucrose late to.
Got the best result using Prestige Cream De Cacao tastes just like the chocolate in Youngs and being fully water/alcohol soluble it wont stuff up the head like Coco or nibs or whatever will.
Mark
 

Dave70

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There is a very good version of this beer in the BYO 250 Recipe book.
Haven't got mine handy and cant remember the yeast recommended. The grain bill was very simple Pale, Light Crystal and Chocolate Malt, Fuggle at 60 minutes and a small addition of Golding late.
Will dig the book up (might take a couple of days) and let you know the yeast.
Oh Lactose and Sucrose late to.
Got the best result using Prestige Cream De Cacao tastes just like the chocolate in Youngs and being fully water/alcohol soluble it wont stuff up the head like Coco or nibs or whatever will.
Mark
Mark, how would you rate that book in terms of the 'clones' being fairly on point?
 

MHB

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Actually among the best, many of the American recipes were built with input from the brewers who make the commercial versions. Most of the UK and European ones are very compatible with what you see in books from Graham Wheeler, he and Roger Protz had very good access to brewery info in their part of the world.
On balance very good starting point, way better than the crap fest in books like brew like a monk or clone brews...
Mark
 

MHB

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Haven't got that one, the first version (150 recipes) and the second 200, now 300 and another dent in the wallet.
Given the 150 and 200 were pretty good I'll look forward to the 300 arriving.
Mark
 

Luxo_Aussie

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This is actually the book I was mentioning, the 300 recipe version.

Young's Double Chocolate Stout
For 19L it calls for and OG of 1.053, FG of 1.013, 28 IBU's, SRM of 35 & ABV of 5.2%.

3.2 Kg Pale ale malt
0.31 Kg English medium crystal malt
591 ml Choclaca liquid cacao
0.34 Kg Lactose sugar (15min)
0.23 Kg Invert sugar - 70L (15min)
0.11 Kg Cane sugar (15min)
0.17 Kg Cocoa powder (15min)
40g Fuggle hops (60min)
7g East Kent Goldings (15min)
1 tsp. Irish moss (15min)
1/4 tsp. yeast nutrient (15min)
9.4g natural chocolate extract (secondary)
Wyeast 1768 (English Special Bitter) or 1968 (London ESB)

Mash at 67 for 60 minutes, ferment at 20 degrees.

I'm a bit dubious of the color for this recipe, no roast barley or chocolate malt? There is chocolate malt mentioned in the initial description but not under ingredients "Young's uses a blend of real dark chocolate and chocolate essence, as well as crystal, chocolate malt and lactose". I'll use this as a starting point but would use MO in lieu of Pale, add some oats, chocolate & munich. Still not sure on their yeast selected, 1318 (London Ale III) has some of the better reviews concerning sweet stouts.

Got the best result using Prestige Cream De Cacao tastes just like the chocolate in Youngs and being fully water/alcohol soluble it wont stuff up the head like Coco or nibs or whatever will.
I was planning on using the cocoa nibs (adding at bottling after steeping in a tincture for a few weeks & straining) would this still adversely affect the head?
 

MHB

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Fats and oils bugger the head retention of beer. I did the ANZAC beer this year for work and went with a Coconut Essence for exactly this reason, its hard to sell beer without a decent head.
The recipe you have there is a bit different from the one I recall, it had Chocolate malt Xal and Pale, I wouldn't choose Maris, doubt you would taste the Maris over the chocolate so why spend the extra.
Invert is a joke, yeast is quite capable of inverting sugar without any help from us. Recommending both invert and cane sugar in the same recipe is ridiculous.
Hops look about right (again from memory).
Mark
 

MHB

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Sorry, just had a reread-
They are using Dark Invert syrup for colour rather than Chocolate Malt. Not sure about Europe but here you would need to be using either Treacle or a darkish Belgian Candi Syrup. Cant see how they get the beer colour unless the Chocolate specified is very dark.
Mark
 

MHB

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Found the Mag, they recommend W1318 London Ale 3.
Mark
 

Alhoare

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This sounds awesome so will try something similar using what I have at home -:
4.5kg Pale Ale Malt, BB
0.1kg Light Choc Malt, Glad
500g Dark Candi Sugar
350g Roasted Barley, Simpsons
300g Med Crystal, Glad
40g Fuggles@60
15g East Kent@15
15g Choc Extract in secondary
W1318
Only need to get the yeast and extract so will see how it turns out.
 
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Alhoare

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Typo that should be 0.1kg Light Choc Malt.
1kg would definitely make it dark but probably a little over the top.
 

bird

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Got the best result using Prestige Cream De Cacao tastes just like the chocolate in Youngs and being fully water/alcohol soluble it wont stuff up the head like Coco or nibs or whatever will.
Mark
Hey Mark.
Made a basic porter recently which has come out really nice. But would love to add some chocolate flavor to it. I have brought some creme de cacao but was wondering how much to add per litre?
Thanks
 

MHB

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Around the whole bottle into a keg so close to 1mL/L. Going to be a large element of personal taste involved but think thats a good starting place.
Mark
 

bird

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Around the whole bottle into a keg so close to 1mL/L. Going to be a large element of personal taste involved but think thats a good starting place.
Mark
Thanks Mark. Have a keg and a half of porter and 2 bottles of creme de cacao so will experiment and see what works.
 

peterlonz

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I have little doubt Creme De Cacoa will provide the desired chocolate flavour.
But it's an expensive addition.
Most recipes call for the use of nibs, & that's what the commercial brewers use AFASIK.
Can't comment from personal experience about any tendency of nibs to effect the head adversely.
Surely we have lots of home brewers who know the effect of using nibs?
 

bird

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I have little doubt Creme De Cacoa will provide the desired chocolate flavour.
But it's an expensive addition.
Most recipes call for the use of nibs, & that's what the commercial brewers use AFASIK.
Can't comment from personal experience about any tendency of nibs to effect the head adversely.
Surely we have lots of home brewers who know the effect of using nibs?
I only paid 6 dollars per bottle so happy with the price. I'm sure choc nibs would be much cheaper but convenience is a big selling point for me. Look forward to trying it out this afternoon. Will let you know how it goes.
 

MHB

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I have little doubt Creme De Cacoa will provide the desired chocolate flavour.
But it's an expensive addition.
Most recipes call for the use of nibs, & that's what the commercial brewers use AFASIK.
Can't comment from personal experience about any tendency of nibs to effect the head adversely.
Surely we have lots of home brewers who know the effect of using nibs?
I think reading the label on a bottle of Youngs might change your mind!
They say Coco powder and chocolate extract. Most commercial brewers will go to great lengths to avoid anything that will damage the head on beer, not much kills head faster than fats.
Things with a high fat content like Coconut (Desiccated ~27%) Cocoa nibs (46%) Coco powder is what is left after you extract the Coco butter, fat content is down to about 14%.
Good quality "Liquor" flavours are fat free, you could try making a sugar/water/alcohol mix and doing your own extraction. I like the flavours made by Prestige just because they taste the best, have used Coconut, Chocolate, Raspberry, Rum Cherry (think cherry ripe porter) all with good results.
Just another tool in the kit, if you want to do some gastro brewing.
Mark
 

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