Yeast Washing. Is It Necessary?

Australia & New Zealand Homebrewing Forum

Help Support Australia & New Zealand Homebrewing Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

SJW

As you must brew, so you must drink
Joined
10/3/04
Messages
3,401
Reaction score
211
I have some first generation Wyeast left over from my last brew. I stepped it up, let it ferment out, chilled, poured off the clear wort and transfered to a smaller container. Now its sitting in a 200ml plastic bottle in the fridge with about 20mm of yeast on the bottom. I have been told to leave the beer on top of this yeast as the hops will help preserve it. I have also read that I should pour off the beer and pour in cooled boilded water.
As I am no liquid yeast expert, whats your take on this. I won't be using this one for a while as I will split the yeast cake up from the first brew to use. For the record the yeast is sitting under a CAP, with 30% F.M.

Steve
 
I've heard recently (via podcast) that yeast washing is not necessary. It doesn't hurt it if you do decide to wash it, but there's not a lot of benefits either.
There was a member on here talking about storing yeast under a slight saline solution, apparently that has some benefits to yeast health, but I'm yet to see the follow up to that to see if it was worth all the hassle.
I store my yeast pretty much as it was built up, seems to have survived OK so far.
 
Keep it under beer, if you stick it under water the change in osmotic pressure may damage the cells.

Should be fine!
 
I think that the main purpose of yeast washing is to try and leave behind as much of the non-yeast particles as possible.

This comes into play if you are planning on storing for extended periods and are worried about the stability of the associated trub that is combined with the yeast, or if the yeast you are planning on reusing comes from a much darker and/or hoppier beer.

As always if there is any doubt about the health/viability of the collected yeast you should do a starter to be sure.
 
If you are going to be keeping it for while I would keep it in water instead of beer. Yeast kept in alcohol is not ideal

Kabooby :icon_cheers:
 
If you are going to be keeping it for while I would keep it in water instead of beer. Yeast kept in alcohol is not ideal

Kabooby :icon_cheers:

+1 buy some saline from your local pharmacy (cheap as). Wash your yeast first, plenty of info here (search). Acid wash as per Dave Logsdon's (Wyeast) info if you want to store only good healthy cells (drop the water and yeast solution to PH 2.2 using phos acid), wash again then store the clean healthy yeast under saline.

More work yes? longer storage without detioration yes, work = benefit. If you are only going to store your generations for a few weeks before reuse, store under beer.
 
And a completely alternative point of view...

I wouldn't store liquid yeast for too long in any case - if you want long term (more than 1-2 months) storage you need to get into slants.

For liquid yeast, my advice is don't mess with it; you just risk damaging it every time you do. Under a low alcohol beer is fine. Well within the yeast's tolerance and the trub and wort provide a food source for the ongoing (though slow) yeast metabolism.

Washing refers to cleaning the solids - removing the hops and trub from the yeast. I don't think it's worth it as it's a lot of mucking around for little advantage. The hops have no benefits for yeast storage, they don't "preserve" the yeast.

If you're waiting more than a week or so you'd want to make a starter out of it too.
 
And for a completely alternative, alternative point of view ... (thus began the next round in the never ending yeast storage and propagation debate)

I wouldn't store liquid yeast for too long in any case - if you want long term (more than 1-2 months) storage you need to get into slants.

I've stored it for up to 6 months before and it has been ok. Basically as long as you take into account the loss of viability at that time and pitch more to compensate it is ok, and you can definitely use it to make a starter from, especially if you wash it first to get the viable yeast up in to suspension.

Also different yeasts behave differently and can be survive for different lengths of time. I have found it very hard to slant and/or store Wyeast 3068 for any length of time, where as 1098 I have stored for 6 months with no discernible problems that is you can not generalise when it comes to the different yeast strains.

That said, these days I slant all the yeast that I store long term.

For liquid yeast, my advice is don't mess with it; you just risk damaging it every time you do. Under a low alcohol beer is fine. Well within the yeast's tolerance and the trub and wort provide a food source for the ongoing (though slow) yeast metabolism.

Washing refers to cleaning the solids - removing the hops and trub from the yeast. I don't think it's worth it as it's a lot of mucking around for little advantage. The hops have no benefits for yeast storage, they don't "preserve" the yeast.

Again I beg to differ. You want to ensure that you pitch strong health vigorous yeast cultures. To do this you need:

i) Ensure that the yeast you start with is still true to the strain that you want to be propagating (ie not recultured from a 12 month old bottle or dregs, or one that has been used too many times and hence had plenty of opportunities to mutate). I think it goes without saying that you should never reuse yeast that there is any suspicion in regards to infection issues, and you need to be double cautious with sanitation practices when storing and propagation yeast.

ii) Ensure that you have healthy viable yeast by either doing an appropriate sized starter, using low gravity wort (~1.030) at 22-26C with some sort of nutrient. ie give the yeast every opportunity to be fighting fit before you pitch it.

iii) If you are repitching from a previous fermentation make sure that you do not leave it too long ( > 2-3 weeks depending on the strain ), and that you don't reuse it too many times (especially if the yeast is been worked hard with a high gravity beer ).

I have tried many ways of re-using and propagating yeast and most of them work after a fashion, with some working better than others and being very dependent on the actual strain you are working with. It does not matter so much how you get the yeast to propagate ( ie slant/wash from a previous cake/culture from a commercial bottle), as long as you are sure the strain is relatively pure, there is enough viable yeast to inoculate the wort (before the bacteria does) and the yeast is clean you should be able to propagate it.
 
I've used 12 month old yeast and yes it took some time to kick off (was asleep too long in the fridge) but it eventually went off just fine.

It was washed and stored under clean water in jars in the fridge.

No issues just a tad slower than normal.


BOG
 
And a completely alternative point of view...

I wouldn't store liquid yeast for too long in any case - if you want long term (more than 1-2 months) storage you need to get into slants.

For liquid yeast, my advice is don't mess with it; you just risk damaging it every time you do. Under a low alcohol beer is fine. Well within the yeast's tolerance and the trub and wort provide a food source for the ongoing (though slow) yeast metabolism.

Washing refers to cleaning the solids - removing the hops and trub from the yeast. I don't think it's worth it as it's a lot of mucking around for little advantage. The hops have no benefits for yeast storage, they don't "preserve" the yeast.

If you're waiting more than a week or so you'd want to make a starter out of it too.
when culturing yeast does it get a foam on it.
 
I know the thrifty nature of some homebrewers - I dont begrudge saving money at all but @ 9.80 a packet -(onya Rossco :party: ) is all the time/effort/risk/reward really worth it?

Just my opinion.

RM
 
when culturing yeast does it get a foam on it.

If you mean but "culturing" making a yeast starter for pitching, it can do if you let it go to krausen. Its the same process as brewing, its just that the emphasis is on yeast growth, not making beer.
 
I know the thrifty nature of some homebrewers - I dont begrudge saving money at all but @ 9.80 a packet -(onya Rossco :party: ) is all the time/effort/risk/reward really worth it?

Just my opinion.

RM

I agree. If I had the money I would not bother with it.

But there are some advantages, like having all the strains on handy at a few days notice.

Also the smack packs only containing barely enough yeast for a low gravity beer at 23L.

If you start going up to stronger beers and/or lagers you really should be pitching more than one smack pack. Worse case with a high gravity lager up to 5 smack packs. (And that's considering fresh smack packs too)

So it does start to add up.
 
$9.80 from craftbrewer isn't delivered to your door. If I was doing 50L batches then sure I'd buy just the one pack and step it up in a starter and away ya go. For a 25L batch, I personally think $3-4 is more palatable. So I buy a smack pack, split in 6 ways, by the time I've bought the DME and built starters each brew I'm ~$3-4/brew, so brew with it and dump it on the garden. I guess some people have a lower acceptable $$ value per batch, so buy agar and test tubes and pressure cookers and slant all their yeast :huh: ... as with everything in home brewing, each to their own.
 
I reuse when it suits me and don't when it doesn't. If you can do it easily and successfully then it's definitely a good tool to have at your disposal. Be it repitching, storage under water, beer, slants, whatever.


With regards to yeast washing though, I thought the term referred to acid washing for cleaning yeast cultures of unwanted organisms.
 
I agree - I only reuse yeast if it's convenient. I'd rather get a new pack than risk a brew on some manky old thing from the back of the fridge. I have used said manky old thing from time to time though...

Planning to start using the technique recommended by Jamil - brew a batch of lower gravity beer on a specific yeast type and then brew a higher gravity batch straight onto the cake. Doesn't suit all beer types but has it's merits. I won't be washing anything in this case.

In the past I've had trouble re-using yeast as I've jumped around between styles. It's a lot easier if you queue up your brews to use the same yeast type.

I think there's two terms for washing: "Washing" and "Acid washing" which are completely different practices.
 
Planning to start using the technique recommended by Jamil - brew a batch of lower gravity beer on a specific yeast type and then brew a higher gravity batch straight onto the cake. Doesn't suit all beer types but has it's merits. I won't be washing anything in this case.

I used to do that all the time, goes particularly well with partigyle brewing which is my favourite way of making big beers. Though I would still only repitch about a cup's worth, not the whole cake.
 
I agree - I only reuse yeast if it's convenient. I'd rather get a new pack than risk a brew on some manky old thing from the back of the fridge. I have used said manky old thing from time to time though...

Planning to start using the technique recommended by Jamil - brew a batch of lower gravity beer on a specific yeast type and then brew a higher gravity batch straight onto the cake. Doesn't suit all beer types but has it's merits. I won't be washing anything in this case.

In the past I've had trouble re-using yeast as I've jumped around between styles. It's a lot easier if you queue up your brews to use the same yeast type.

I think there's two terms for washing: "Washing" and "Acid washing" which are completely different practices.


I might be wrong, but I think you have misinterpreted Jamil - He re-uses yeast from previous batches, but he doesn't pitch straight onto the cake. He takes teh amount of slurry from the previous batch that he estimates will give him the correct cell count, and pitches that.

His online pitching rate calculator has a tool to help you estimate the right amount of slurry to pitch. Usually gonna be closer to the cup that Kai is talking about rather than a whole yeast cake.

Mind you, lots of people do pitch straight onto a previous cake, so its not like its going to ruin your beer. But if you subscribe (as I do) to the gospel of Jamil, then its not ideal. It is a hell of a lot easier though.

Thirsty
 
I know that this thread is now morphing into a separate but related topic, but from what I understood the yeast behaves differently when there is no growth phase involved, and is not optimal for the fermenting process (ie there is such a think as over pitching).

As mentioned earlier, I always wash the yeast (in sanatised water) and pitch an appropriate amount (rule of thumb is about 1/4 for similiar OG and volume).
 
If in doubt, wouldn't you want to "overpitch" in a very high gravity beer rather than risk excessive esters and fusel alcohols produced by a yeast struggling with a hostile wort?

I'm not entirely convinced of the concern with not having (much) growth going on - it's never been that well quantified. Chris; is is science or suspicion?

Part of my concern is not so much the theory but the practicality - I aint gonna be counting yeast cells... (ie. if you've recycled yeast you know it's a messy affair of really rough guessing when it comes to quantity).
 

Latest posts

Back
Top