Yeast Starter Problems - High Og

[maltedhopalong]

Hi Guys,

I was just asking yesterday about how to promote reproduction rather than fermentation in my yeastie's starter.

I shook the thing to hell to get the aeration right up and it was still going really slow.

That's when I realised, I had somehow put way too much lme in the starter.

I've basically got 250mL in 2L of water.

No wonder it seemed really reluctant to get started.

The question is: What's the best thing to do now? Should I split it into two starters? maybe double the volume of water?

Can anyone give me an idea of what happens to yeasties in high % volumes of alcohol? Do they die or go to sleep? Do I still have a viable starter or would I be better of starting again?

PS. the reason I used a starter was so I could use one packet of S-23 at 12C fermentation temps. Wanted to grow it in size and then wash the alcohol off and pitch at 12C so I didn't have to start high. If I start with high temp fermentation and drop the temp after a day or so, will I get off flavours? Which part of fermentation is most critical in terms of off flavours?

 

[lagers44]

Hi maltedhopalong

As i understand it reproduction is where you get most of the flavours from , that's why you need a large starter for pitching at lower temps.

If it's not too late you could dilute the starter with some cold sterile water. That's the road i would take.

Lagers

 

[Hogan]

Hi Guys,

I was just asking yesterday about how to promote reproduction rather than fermentation in my yeastie's starter.

I shook the thing to hell to get the aeration right up and it was still going really slow.

That's when I realised, I had somehow put way too much lme in the starter.

I've basically got 250mL in 2L of water.

No wonder it seemed really reluctant to get started.

The question is: What's the best thing to do now? Should I split it into two starters? maybe double the volume of water?

Can anyone give me an idea of what happens to yeasties in high % volumes of alcohol? Do they die or go to sleep? Do I still have a viable starter or would I be better of starting again?

PS. the reason I used a starter was so I could use one packet of S-23 at 12C fermentation temps. Wanted to grow it in size and then wash the alcohol off and pitch at 12C so I didn't have to start high. If I start with high temp fermentation and drop the temp after a day or so, will I get off flavours? Which part of fermentation is most critical in terms of off flavours?

Take a gravity reading of the wort. - 1.040 is the recommended level but you can go higher for higher gravity beers. If the gravity is too high I would boil up another litre of plain water, take 500ml out of the starter and gradually replace it with the boiled water until you are down to your 1.040.

So far as pitching lager yeast at higher temps. Chris White of WhiteLabs says you should pitch their lager yeast at 23c + or - 3c. When you see activity, drop the temp down to your required level 12c etc. over a couple of hours. He says that it will take 24 hours before any off flavours start. I pitch my lagers at 22c and drop them within 12 hours and I have had no probs.

Cheers, Hoges.

 

[maltedhopalong]

Hey thanks very much guys.

I love this forum.

 

[devo]

I try and siphon off about 1.5 litres worth of wort into my starter flask just prior to filling my no chill cube so that I'm using basically the same wort as the beer I'm about to ferment.

When it's time to prep my starter I add another 500ml of filtered water some yeast nutrient then put the flask on my stove top heat again till it boils (kills any nasties) and crash cool in a bucket of ice water. I shake the flask for 2 minutes to oxygenate then add yeast be it liquid or dry.

I do tend to use a heat pad as well just to kick things along.

 

[maltedhopalong]

Cheers, good advice that.

 

[devo]

Just to add I only really find I have issues of a slow starter when I've used out of date (discounted) cultures that tend to be a little less viable. They do eventually come around but you find that you just need to be a little more patient with them.

 

[Steve Lacey]

250 mL of LME ... what's that in grams?

Here is a tip. Measure your malt extract for starters in grams. Then it is dead easy to make up the right concentration, just remember 10 grams dry malt extract per 100 mL of water. That will make a 10 Plato starter (1.040 I think...going off the top of my head).

So for liquid malt, allow for 20-30% water or 12-13 g of extract per 100 mL. The maths becomes very easy then. Also, consider that there will be some evaporation when you boil the starter, so maybe add about 10% to the volume of water to compensate for this.

And if you are going to make a mistake, it is better for the starter to be weaker rather than stronger as that will stress the eyast less.

As for your present starter, try to work out what weight of malt the 250 mL is equal to. Then work out the probable gravity of the wort. If it is more than 1.070, I would suggest you have done a great job of making some sick and feeble yeasties and I would recommend starting again. Even if it is more than 1.060 I'd be a bit concerned. The one thing in your favour was that it was a failry big quantity of dry yeast to start with. But if you want to give your wort the absolute best chance of turning into good beer, start with a new pack of dry yeast (or two), pitch it at 12 to 14 degrees and just be patient.

 

[mika]

I use 100g of DME in a bit better than 1L for ~1035-1040. Given LME is only about 75% equivalent to that of dry that gives ~190g in 2L which certainly doesn't seem excessive to me. As for starter gravity I've heard from 1030-1040 so as long as you're in that region should be fine.
A refrac and a quick gravity check prior to throwing the yeast in would be a good way of proofing your work before throwing 100ml of yeast into a 1080 starter.