Yeast Starter And Pitching

[fishard]

Well I just had my first attempt at doing a yeast starter taken from a coopers.....(still have the packet yeast for back up) I have made it using 60g DME in about 600ml water.

There is a few lumps floating round ........Malt I think maybe didn't boil long enough?

Any way this should be big enough for an ale I take it?

Now when doing an ale looking to ferment at aroud 18-20c at what temp should the wort be before I pitch the starter??

Before I pitch it in I have to taste it........I read
When tasting the starter before I pitch it in what sort of taste would be a warning?
I am worried that I will think it tastes **** to me but is ok.

I hope you can a laugh out of this........its got me going

Cheers

 

[bradmcm]

That size starter is OK. A thumbnail guide I use is 1L starter/10L for ales and twice that for lagers. If it is a bigger beer (>1.060) then I increase it again.

Pitching temp should be approximately 20-25C.

You might be surprised how OK your starter will taste. A clean yeasty taste is what you are after. If it tastes sour well.....

 

[fishard]

Bradmcm,

thanks for the imput there.

I don't know how this one will go I mixed it last night and this morning there is no sign of activity..... :huh:

 

[bonk]

liquid yeasts can sometimes take their sweet bloody time in starting (even with a starter) 24 hours isn't unusual for some of them. i've had several do this.

 

[Asher]

Fishard.

All the starters I've made from coopers bottles take at least 2 if not 3 days to show any signs of activity....
600 mls is a prety big step up from a bottle.
I normally start with about 100 mls of wort, then ramp it up to a 1 litre after about 3 or 4 days

Anyway yours should work fine... Just give it another day or two

Asher for now

 

[fishard]

Bonk and Asher,

I was hoping that was the case, not planning to put a brew down till saturday.

thanks

 

[locost]

when pitching your starter do you decant the fermented wort off the yeast slurry or do you pitch the lot?

 

[Wax]

My procedure may be wrong but the wort in my starter is not fermented out when I pitch it. I try to pitch the whole starter when it is really cranking so the yeasties go to work in the fermenter straignt away.

 

[Asher]

Same here Wax... I pitch the lot

Whether it be ramping up or pitching a starter, I try to do it shortly after high krausen. So the wort (actually young beer!) is cloudy and the liquid contains allot of the healthiest yeasties that I don't want to loose...

Asher for now

 

[pint of lager]

There are a number of different approaches when pitching starters.

The usual one is to pitch a starter volume of approx 5% for ales 10% for lagers with the starter in the actively dividing (aerobic)stage, right at the start of ferment. The yeast stay in the dividing phase and continue to divide when pitched into the wort.

You can of course, brew a starter, let it ferment right out, pour off the fermented wort and just pitch the slurry into your wort. Or, if it has been finished for a while, pour off the stale fermented wort, pour in more starter, wait till it is showing activity and pitch the lot.

When ramping up starters, it is preferable to ramp just at the stage where it shows lots of activity, this means it is staying in the dividing aerobic phase rather than swapping in and out of aerobic/anaerobic phases. But not many of us can sit around, drinking their output and watching the dear little beasties to catch them at the right time.

So how do you judge when it is ready to ramp? I give the starter a shake every time I go past, and when there is lots of CO2 given off, it is time to ramp.

 

[sosman]

The usual one is to pitch a starter volume of approx 5% for ales 10% for lagers with the starter in the actively dividing (aerobic)stage, right at the start of ferment. The yeast stay in the dividing phase and continue to divide when pitched into the wort.

Lager - this reminds me of a conversation we had on #ahb a while back. If you are going to do that, why not toss in the final volume of wort from the outset, ie skip the stepping up. I know this goes against conventional wisdom - but the arguments against this have always seemed a little lame.

 

[pint of lager]

The aim is to pitch enough active yeast to get the wort fermenting and the yeast working to outcompete any wild yeast or bacteria. Wild yeast and bacteria multiply much more quickly than our favoured brewing yeast, by an order of 10, I seem to remember reading, so it doesn't take much of an infection to mean that the beer shows signs of infection.

So if you don't pitch enough yeast, there is a much greater chance of any infection taking hold.

The wanted fermenting yeast do change the wort conditions to be less favourable to unwanted guests, they lower pH, consume oxygen making the wort anearobic, produce alcohol and a zymurgist could probably rattle off some more changes too. So you want these changes to occur as quickly as possible. This means pitching enough yeast into favourable conditions, good nutrients, oxygen for division and correct temperature.

For instance, when using the dregs from a Coopers bottle, there is only a very small amount of yeast alive, so you give it a small starter volume, say 50ml, as the first step.

If you could gaurantee the complete sterility of your wort, only wanted yeast in your starter and complete aseptic conditions of transfer, you could pitch 1gm of yeast into 100 litres of wort with no infections.

One of my favourite quotes is, "Every beer is infected, it just depends with what and to what degree."

 

[sosman]

That kind of makes sense. Thanks lager.

 

[Jovial_Monk]

Ummm there are differences. . .for lagers you want less cell reproduction as each budding off a new generation adds flavor to the beer which is not wanted in a clean lager.

Actual height of krausen is not a good time, all the glycogen(?) is used up, you want to pitch just before that stage (goes against intuition I know)

Then there are ales that are nearly lagers, e.g. Scotch Ales. . .things are rarely that black and white in brewing

JM

 

[Gulf Brewery]

for lagers you want less cell reproduction as each budding off a new generation adds flavor to the beer which is not wanted in a clean lager.

JM

I think we are into urban myth areas here. If the yeast don't bud and have subsequent generations, then you end up with your starter amount of yeast, rather than harvesting 5 times the amount which is the norm.

Your post implies that yeast multiplication will not produce a clean lager. Do you have any brewing text references to back up that as yeast reproduction is an interestiing topic?

Cheers
Pedro