Yeast Lab

[HeavyNova]

Hey guys,

I'm starting to get into the world of liquid yeasts. Awesome variety but much pricier than the dried yeasts!

This, plus a bunch of Wolfy's recent posts on yeast starters and slants has got me seriously thinking about getting more out of my yeast.

I'd like to start simple-ish and begin by spliting smack packs up and making starters from them as well as keeping slurries from previous brews and making starters with them too (yeast washing etc). At this stage I was planning on keeping the yeast in the fridge in jars under clean water - I should be able to get at least 6 months out of the strains like this shouldn't I?

To do this effectively I'm going to need to get my hands on some extra equipment and was wondering if I could get some feedback from those that dabble in this area on my list;

1 x Stir plate
1 x 1L Erlenmeyer flask (borosilicate)
1 x 3L Erlenmeyer flask (borosilicate)
? x ???ml Jars

It's not unlikely that this stuff could come in the post so to try and get the right stuff all in one hit I mainly wanted to know;

• Do you 'step-up' with different vessles or do you simply add more malt to the singe vessle - i.e. do I need more than one flask?
• How many jars do people normally need for 3-4 strains of yeast on the go and what size/s?
• A pressure cooker (i.e. dodgy autoclave) isn't really needed until you want to move on to making slants etc?

And finally, does anyone know of a good place to get this kind of gear? Happy to go online or local (Perth). Keeping in mind that I don't want or need top of the range lab equipment.

 

[kevin_smevin]

Hey guys,

I'm starting to get into the world of liquid yeasts. Awesome variety but much pricier than the dried yeasts!

This, plus a bunch of Wolfy's recent posts on yeast starters and slants has got me seriously thinking about getting more out of my yeast.

I'd like to start simple-ish and begin by spliting smack packs up and making starters from them as well as keeping slurries from previous brews and making starters with them too (yeast washing etc). At this stage I was planning on keeping the yeast in the fridge in jars under clean water - I should be able to get at least 6 months out of the strains like this shouldn't I?

To do this effectively I'm going to need to get my hands on some extra equipment and was wondering if I could get some feedback from those that dabble in this area on my list;

1 x Stir plate
1 x 1L Erlenmeyer flask (borosilicate)
1 x 3L Erlenmeyer flask (borosilicate)
? x ???ml Jars

It's not unlikely that this stuff could come in the post so to try and get the right stuff all in one hit I mainly wanted to know;

• Do you 'step-up' with different vessles or do you simply add more malt to the singe vessle - i.e. do I need more than one flask?
• How many jars do people normally need for 3-4 strains of yeast on the go and what size/s?
• A pressure cooker (i.e. dodgy autoclave) isn't really needed until you want to move on to making slants etc?

And finally, does anyone know of a good place to get this kind of gear? Happy to go online or local (Perth). Keeping in mind that I don't want or need top of the range lab equipment.

I recomend polypropylene bottles for yeast washing and storage. They're autoclavable, mostly transparent and not fragile like glass. you can get them here pretty cheap http://www.wiltronics.com.au/catalogue/194...s-polypropylene. They have lots of other gear that you might find useful too

 

[lespaul]

Im not sure if this is correct practice, but i just use whatever container i have to step it up. 250ml empty white labs vial into 1lt plastic container into 5lt plastic container. Dont use a stir plate, just shake it every time i walk by, although there are methods on the forums on making cheap stirplates yourself if you cbf.
Cheers

 

[HeavyNova]

I recomend polypropylene bottles for yeast washing and storage. They're autoclavable, mostly transparent and not fragile like glass. you can get them here pretty cheap http://www.wiltronics.com.au/catalogue/194...s-polypropylene. They have lots of other gear that you might find useful too

Thanks! Those bottles and their flasks look well priced. Would you think that the 250ml size would be suitable for yeast packet and slurry storage?

 

[Wolfy]

I have kept washed yeast slurry for 6-9months without problem, however after 1 year it seems to not be so happy.

To split packs its best to tip the yeast directly into small vials as soon as the pack is opened - however that requires some small test-tube or sample jars, which you did not include in your list.
The next 'best' way is to make a larger-than-required-starter and save some of the yeast slurry in stubbies or the like, that requires no extra equipment.
And then of course, as you suggested, you can wash and store the yeast after use, again stubbies work well, and a few kitchen-jars to wash it in, nothing special needed.

A stir plate is nice, and in theory you will get up to 50% more yeast if you use one to make your starters, however, that combined with the flasks can be expensive, and for your first few uses of liquid yeast it may or may not be worth the cost. Shaken starters can easily be made in PET or similar bottles without the expense of dedicated yeast-lab purchases, if anything simply make the shaken-starter a little bigger to compensate for the lack of stir-plate.

I find it easier to use multiple containers to step up starters, but it can be done the other way.
However, if you start with fresh full or even partly split packs of yeast, you do not really need to worry about stepping starters, that is only needed if you start with small amounts of yeast, you could easily pitch half a pack into say 1.5L starter and then pitch that directly into your beer. The first times you use liquid yeast there is no need to make things complicated, you can, but its not required.

I like to keep at least 3 or 4 different samples of the same strain so that if one gets infected or lost the entire strain is not lost.
You can use vials, jars, or stubbies to store the yeast, it depends on what method you use, if washing yeast slurry after the ferment, I find clear Corona bottles work well (and are easily found free).

A pressure cooker is essentially just a cheap autoclave not really a dodgy one, a dodgy solution is to simply boil your equipment for some time to kill most of the bugs, or boil it for 3 days to sterilize it the same a pressure cooker would. If you are working with small amounts of yeast it is best to be as sterile as possible, with both your equipment and the location you work in. If you keep everything as clean and sterile as you can, you will minimise the risk of infection and spoilage, however again what is required and what you use, does not have to be expensive or dedicated purchases.

 

[kieran]

Hey guys,

I'm starting to get into the world of liquid yeasts. Awesome variety but much pricier than the dried yeasts!

This, plus a bunch of Wolfy's recent posts on yeast starters and slants has got me seriously thinking about getting more out of my yeast.

I'd like to start simple-ish and begin by spliting smack packs up and making starters from them as well as keeping slurries from previous brews and making starters with them too (yeast washing etc). At this stage I was planning on keeping the yeast in the fridge in jars under clean water - I should be able to get at least 6 months out of the strains like this shouldn't I?

To do this effectively I'm going to need to get my hands on some extra equipment and was wondering if I could get some feedback from those that dabble in this area on my list;

1 x Stir plate
1 x 1L Erlenmeyer flask (borosilicate)
1 x 3L Erlenmeyer flask (borosilicate)
? x ???ml Jars

It's not unlikely that this stuff could come in the post so to try and get the right stuff all in one hit I mainly wanted to know;

• Do you 'step-up' with different vessles or do you simply add more malt to the singe vessle - i.e. do I need more than one flask?
• How many jars do people normally need for 3-4 strains of yeast on the go and what size/s?
• A pressure cooker (i.e. dodgy autoclave) isn't really needed until you want to move on to making slants etc?

And finally, does anyone know of a good place to get this kind of gear? Happy to go online or local (Perth). Keeping in mind that I don't want or need top of the range lab equipment.

That will be a good start.

Extra advice if you want to step it up a notch:
centrifuge
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TABLE-ELECTRIC-...=item5d2c3da2f8

your autoclave is definately a good idea
some sort of flame
methylated spirits diluted to 80% by volume.
an incubator that holds to 20-25C

laminar flow hood -- here's a cool little dodgy one someone made up, which would probably work quite well:
http://makeprojects.com/Project/Home-Mycology-Lab/242/1

stir plate and your flasks (an orbital shaker is preferable, because you've got less potentially infecting stuff going into your flasks).
some pipettes
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/LG1630A-10-MEAS...=item35b1678c10
and
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TL1611-PIPETTE-...=item35ae48badc


Sort out a standard procedure for your media:
http://www.thelabrat.com/protocols/YMGagar.shtml

and some of these:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/25-centrifuge-f...=item3f0a4626b9
and some of these:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/500-BD-FALCON-1...=item20b6b862ef

and that's about it... i might email some more later because i've gotta get into the lab right now..

 

[HeavyNova]

Thanks for coming to the rescue Wolfy!

Ok, I think I'll start with some shaken starters and see how I go with them. I can't seem to find a suitable stir plate under $100 anyway - might have to try DIY if I decide to go that way a bit later.

A set of small jars wouldn't go astray for storage of the yeast in the fridge though so I think I might get hold of some of them.

Wolfy, can you explain how you would take some fresh yeast out of the packet and store it in jars - would you top it up with water? I'm going to do a half batch (about 12L) soon can you advise if this would this be an appropriate way of going about it;

1. Open smack pack and tip out about 30% - 40% into 2 or 3 jars. So say; three 15 ml samples.
2. Top these jars up to the very top with cooled, preboiled water, cap and place into the fridge.
3. Tip the remaining yeast into a 2L, sanitized softdrink container and fill with about 1.5L of cooled (approx mid 20's) wort of similar starting grav to my upcoming brew
4. Seal the top of the bottle with some gladwrap and a rubber band
5. Give it a good swirl and leave it in an area in with temperatures in the mid 20's
6. Continue to swirl the starter every now and then for the next 24 hours
7. After 24 hours, let the mixture settle, pour off the fermenter wort and then pitch the remaining slurry into the main fermenter (full of Dussledorf Altbier wort)

Some of the above steps might be obvious but I just wanted to check that I've got the procedure sorted in my head.

 

[HeavyNova]

Whoa Kieran! Looks a bit technical for what I'm aiming to do! Seems like you've got it all sussed though!

 

[hsb]

Those 'falcon tubes' look about right, but are round-bottomed.
I've been using large glass test tubes with rubber bungs and it's a real PITA. They fall all over the place and the bungs are forever bursting out throughout the process.
Despite being really careful, following all the procedures in the yeast slant thread and being in a good place after slanting. 1 week later half my slants are dead due to bursting bungs, rolling test tubes etc.

What I need is little plastic tubes with screw-on lids and flat bottoms that can handled being boiled. Does such a thing exist? Anywhere to buy some?

 

[HeavyNova]

Those 'falcon tubes' look about right, but are round-bottomed.
I've been using large glass test tubes with rubber bungs and it's a real PITA. They fall all over the place and the bungs are forever bursting out throughout the process.
Despite being really careful, following all the procedures in the yeast slant thread and being in a good place after slanting. 1 week later half my slants are dead due to bursting bungs, rolling test tubes etc.

What I need is little plastic tubes with screw-on lids and flat bottoms that can handled being boiled. Does such a thing exist? Anywhere to buy some?

hey hsb, so about what size vessel do you think is ideal for yeast fridge storage (not slants) - 50ml, 100ml, 150ml?

 

[amiddler]

Thanks for coming to the rescue Wolfy!

Ok, I think I'll start with some shaken starters and see how I go with them. I can't seem to find a suitable stir plate under $100 anyway - might have to try DIY if I decide to go that way a bit later.

A set of small jars wouldn't go astray for storage of the yeast in the fridge though so I think I might get hold of some of them.

Wolfy, can you explain how you would take some fresh yeast out of the packet and store it in jars - would you top it up with water? I'm going to do a half batch (about 12L) soon can you advise if this would this be an appropriate way of going about it;

1. Open smack pack and tip out about 30% - 40% into 2 or 3 jars. So say; three 15 ml samples.
2. Top these jars up to the very top with cooled, preboiled water, cap and place into the fridge.
3. Tip the remaining yeast into a 2L, sanitized softdrink container and fill with about 1.5L of cooled (approx mid 20's) wort of similar starting grav to my upcoming brew
4. Seal the top of the bottle with some gladwrap and a rubber band
5. Give it a good swirl and leave it in an area in with temperatures in the mid 20's
6. Continue to swirl the starter every now and then for the next 24 hours
7. After 24 hours, let the mixture settle, pour off the fermenter wort and then pitch the remaining slurry into the main fermenter (full of Dussledorf Altbier wort)

Some of the above steps might be obvious but I just wanted to check that I've got the procedure sorted in my head.

HeavyNova, You don't want to seal the top as in step #4 as you want the CO2 produced to escape. Use aluminum foil placed on top and scrunched around the sides to stop unwanted's floating in and let CO2 out.

Drew

 

[HeavyNova]

HeavyNova, You don't want to seal the top as in step #4 as you want the CO2 produced to escape. Use aluminum foil placed on top and scrunched around the sides to stop unwanted's floating in and let CO2 out.

Drew

I have wondered about the foil in many people's pictures to be honest. Why is it that we can use gladwrap on our fermenters but not on the starters?

Actually now that I think of it, is it because we're looking for maximum yeast growth which CO2 in solution can inhibit slightly? So we want the 'lid' on the starter vessel to be as unrestrictive as possible (but without letting nasties in)?

 

[stux]

I have wondered about the foil in many people's pictures to be honest. Why is it that we can use gladwrap on our fermenters but not on the starters?

Actually now that I think of it, is it because we're looking for maximum yeast growth which CO2 in solution can inhibit slightly? So we want the 'lid' on the starter vessel to be as unrestrictive as possible (but without letting nasties in)?

The other reason that i've heard is to allow 02 back in so it can exchange with the liquid (especially on a stirplate)

Yeast grows in the presence of 02, and ferments without it... so you want to prevent the ingress of 02 in a fermenter

(simplification )

 

[felten]

Those 'falcon tubes' look about right, but are round-bottomed.
I've been using large glass test tubes with rubber bungs and it's a real PITA. They fall all over the place and the bungs are forever bursting out throughout the process.
Despite being really careful, following all the procedures in the yeast slant thread and being in a good place after slanting. 1 week later half my slants are dead due to bursting bungs, rolling test tubes etc.

What I need is little plastic tubes with screw-on lids and flat bottoms that can handled being boiled. Does such a thing exist? Anywhere to buy some?

something like this? these have been on my watch list for a while, but I'm not into yeast slanting yet so I'm not sure if they're the right kind of plastic for pressure cooking.

 

[Wolfy]

Wolfy, can you explain how you would take some fresh yeast out of the packet and store it in jars - would you top it up with water? I'm going to do a half batch (about 12L) soon can you advise if this would this be an appropriate way of going about it;

1. Open smack pack and tip out about 30% - 40% into 2 or 3 jars. So say; three 15 ml samples.
2. Top these jars up to the very top with cooled, preboiled water, cap and place into the fridge.
3. Tip the remaining yeast into a 2L, sanitized softdrink container and fill with about 1.5L of cooled (approx mid 20's) wort of similar starting grav to my upcoming brew
4. Seal the top of the bottle with some gladwrap and a rubber band
5. Give it a good swirl and leave it in an area in with temperatures in the mid 20's
6. Continue to swirl the starter every now and then for the next 24 hours
7. After 24 hours, let the mixture settle, pour off the fermenter wort and then pitch the remaining slurry into the main fermenter (full of Dussledorf Altbier wort)

The best method I have seen to split freshly opened packs, is to simply decant the contents into small (sterile) test tubes or vials as soon as the pack is open.

The less you work with it, the less you mix in the better, that way you should be storing the yeast as 'cleanly' as possible. There should be about 80-100ml of yeasty-liquid in a Wyeast or WhiteLabs pack, so if you are splitting that a number of ways 15ml test-tubes are an ideal size. If you need more volume (but I see no reason to top up the tube with water) sterile distilled water would be best, but cooled boiled water is adequate.

Depending on the number of splits you make, and on the age of the pack, you should be fine pitching it directly into 1.5L of wort, but starter gravity should be between 1.030 and 1.040 regardless of the gravity of your beer.

Rather than just swirling the starter, screw the lid on tight and shake the crap out of it, do that as hard and as vigorous and as often as you like. You can put some cling-wrap attached with a rubber band over the outside of the bottle and still be able to screw the lid tight to shake and then undo it so that pressure does not build up after. Agitating the starter will introduce oxygen, degass CO2, and re-suspend the yeast into the wort, all of which will encourage yeast growth.

24 to 48h should be enough for the yeast to grow as much as it is going to. You can decant the spent starter, or pitch the entire thing, just depends on your preference in that regard.

something like this? these have been on my watch list for a while, but I'm not into yeast slanting yet so I'm not sure if they're the right kind of plastic for pressure cooking.

Polypropylene should be fine for autoclave (polystyrene is the other common plastic and it cannot be), however unless it specifically says that in the item listing or you have confirmed with the supplier, I'd not buy them.
However, last year there was a 'bulk buy' and feedback about the 50ml tubes is that was that they may be a little large for making slants and storing direct yeast samples.
About 30ml size should be good for slants and also for storing split packs, but 15ml test-tubes can also work well for split packs and storing liquid-yeast.

 

[HeavyNova]

The other reason that i've heard is to allow 02 back in so it can exchange with the liquid (especially on a stirplate)

Yeast grows in the presence of 02, and ferments without it... so you want to prevent the ingress of 02 in a fermenter

(simplification )

Makes sense. Cheers.