Yankee Biab

[katzke]

20 plus pounds of grains for the BIAB (tripel). Good thing there are three of us.

I hope you do not think it will be too heavy? I would have to look for the exact figure but I have done 12 or 14 pounds and had no trouble pulling and draining the bag by myself. With a hook or pole you will have no trouble. By the way I am a fat old man way out of shape and not a buff construction worked or weight lifter.

 

[daddymem]

I was a little tongue in cheek there. I've done 13# batches on my own, no hook or anything. It's one of the reasons why BIAB can't work!

 

[daddymem]

Well, we've got our plans about 90% together. Here are the calculations and recipe formulations if anyone is interested:
http://tinyurl.com/yz9zxyl

The Tripel plan: http://tinyurl.com/ylnv3c9
Tripel recipe: http://tinyurl.com/yl35dn2
Tripel adjusted grain bill: http://tinyurl.com/yhfrygn

The Quad plan: http://tinyurl.com/yzm5flz
Quad recipe: http://tinyurl.com/yzj9l9n
Quad adjusted grain bill: http://tinyurl.com/yl6gh25

Dubbel recipe: http://tinyurl.com/yzumac7

Yeasts and hops are the remaining items to determine as well as availability of our ingredients.

 

[daddymem]

Well, we've got our plans about 90% together. Here are the calculations and recipe formulations if anyone is interested:
http://tinyurl.com/yz9zxyl

The Tripel plan: http://tinyurl.com/ylnv3c9
Tripel recipe: http://tinyurl.com/yl35dn2
Tripel adjusted grain bill: http://tinyurl.com/yhfrygn

The Quad plan: http://tinyurl.com/yzm5flz
Quad recipe: http://tinyurl.com/yzj9l9n
Quad adjusted grain bill: http://tinyurl.com/yl6gh25

Dubbel recipe: http://tinyurl.com/yzumac7

Yeasts and hops are the remaining items to determine as well as availability of our ingredients.

Too bad this didn't work.
http://armpithomestead.blogspot.com/2009/11/partigyle.html
:icon_chickcheers:

 

[daddymem]

We got two more beers from the partigyle mash using a sourmash technique! 5 beers, two days, two mash tuns.

http://armpithomestead.blogspot.com/2009/1...s-are-nice.html

 

[Thirsty Boy]

well done on that effort. I'm impressed.

I honestly thought you were being a bit ambitious and that you would struggle producing three "strong" beers. I knew BIAB partigyle would work, but thought a more traditional - Big Beer, Normal Beer, Small Beer - sequence would be the best you could manage. Glad I wasn't right!

And extra sourmash beers on top huh?

Hope they all turn out great. Top work.

Thirsty

 

[Wevesign73]

Im glad you made it Tell some people about the site.

 

[daddymem]

Here is a write up of the recipe formulation:

https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=0AXC2Z23g...3d2M5&hl=en

 

[daddymem]

Ok, so the bonus beer from our partigyle is lacking a bit. Here is the data:

OG:1.031
FG:1.006
3.3% ABV
67% att

Taste: extremely weak, very thin, got the sour in it, very tasty but small.

Process: (This was after the spent grains from our partigyle sat for 24 hours in a cooler with 1.5 gallons of 160F water added.)

5 gallons of water heated to 170F
Lifted grain bag out of cooler and put in pot. Poured the wort on top of that.
Dumped the 5 gallons of 170F water over the top of the grains.
Let that sit for 15 minutes.
Pulled out the bag and squeezed as hard as I could.
Brought to a boil and added the following:

* .5 oz East Kent Goldings hops for 60 minutes
* 1 bottle Working Man's Pale Ale funked beer for 45 minutes
* Immersion chiller and Irish Moss for 15 minutes
* .5 oz crushed coriander for 10 minutes
* 3 oz orange marmalade for 10 minutes
* .5 oz crushed grains of paradise for 10 minute
* US-05 rehydrated when wort reached 70F

I ended up with an OG of 1.031 (very sweet and spicy).

Suggestions
As noted, this is very sweet with a nice sour to it but extremely thin and weak. It almost like a soda. Any ideas what I could do to add body to this and add some ABV? It has been in the primary since November 9. Or do I just bottle it and make it a session sour beer? Call it "Sour reSession"

TIA

 

[Thirsty Boy]

ask your local homebrew shop if they have a relatively "unfermentable" extract - add that. It will give you some body and the bit that does ferment will give you abv.

Or do a little stovetop brew to do the same - mash in at 70-73 and get a few litres of dextrinous wort to blend in

But I would be inclined to leave it be... it was a gift from teh brewing gods anyway, take it for what it is. Besides, once the sour kicks in a bit more, that will give it a perception of substance. Or you could add a shot of syrup to the glass like a berlinerweiss.

 

[daddymem]

I just finished the refrigerated sample. Yeah, it needs something. It's like drinking water with a little lemon in it. I like the mini brew idea. I have some crystal, I could shoot high on temperature and a small volume. Add some sugar or the homemade candy syrup in as well. Shoot for 10-15 gravity points on the sugar and say 1/2# crystal 60L in 1/2 gallon of water, maybe an ounce of torrified wheat for a nice head. I could also get some more IBUs in there with 1/2 ounce of hops or so. Sound good?

 

[daddymem]

Made it onto Basic Brewing Radio with this brew day. It is the "Partigyles Gone Wild" podcast.

http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=radio

 

[daddymem]

Ok, so I have a number of BIAB beers under my belt and I am ready to complicate things a bit more. I know, can't be much more complicated than our "collaborative mashing" group brew ("Partigyles gone wild"). But I'd like to do a Doppelbock. Preferably an Ayinger Celebrator clone if anyone has a good recipe of that. It seems that most suggest decoction or step mashing. I am thinking about trying a step mash using BIAB. In order to make my example/question easier, I am going to refer to "The Complete Joy of Homebrewing," 3rd Edition by Charlie Papazian, pages 234-236, "Limnian Wheat Doppelbock" (8-10% ABV). I won't put up the recipe, just the mashing instructions and some key information.

There are 5.5 pounds of grains for the mash (36% wheat, 36% 2-row, remainder specialty malts), and 10 pounds of dried extract for the boil.

The grains and 5-1/2 quarts (gallons running tally=1.375) of 150F (65C) water for a target temperature of 133F(56C) for 30 minutes.
Add 2-1/2 quarts (gallons running tally=2) of boiling water for a target of 155F (68C) for 45 minutes.
Raise temperature to 158F (70C) and hold for 10-20 minutes.
Raise temperature to 167F (75C).
Pour mash into lautertun and sparge with 2-1/2 gallons of 170F (76C) water.
Bring wort to a boil..etc.
"Because of all the malt ingredients in this recipe, you will have about 4 gallons of hot wort."

I see 2 gallons then 2.5 gallons then a 60 minute boil to get 4 gallons? :huh: :huh:

So....how do you go about converting this all to BIAB? I have two kettles so I could do heated water additions, but would I go for 1.375 gallons 133F, then 5.125 gallons at a temperature to be determined, to reach 155F, then continue on? In other words, a small volume for the protein rest, then the remainder of your full boil volume for the saccharification stage? Or follow their schedule and add 4.5 gallons of 170F for a mash out? Or just use full volume of water from the beginning and use the burner under the kettle to reach my step temperatures?

If this has been asked and answered before, a kind kick towards the topic link would be appreciated.
TIA

 

[daddymem]

And I guess the other question is...."is this necessary, can a single infusion get the desired results too?"

 

[Thirsty Boy]

You only get 4 gallons from papazians recipe because it is a minimash - you add extract (which also gives volume) and top up to pre-boil as required.

How do you step mash with BIAB.... you BIAB as normal and heat it up between steps by turning on your burner and stirring...

Presto, step mash

You will probably take about 1-2mins per degree centigrade to make your step change, just take those minutes off the rest times, half off the "coming from" rest, half off the "going to" rest.

So your mash would be something like

mash in to a temp of 56C - rest 15mins
raise temp over 20 minutes to 68C - rest for 35mins
Raise temp to 70C over 5 mins, rest for 10-15mins
Raise temp to 75 over 10 mins, rest for 10 mins and pull bag

If you want to throw a decoction in there somewhere, its easy as with BIAB. You just pull up on one edge of your bag till the grain bed comes to the surface, scoop out a decent portion (1/3rd to 1/2) of the thick/solid material - bring it to the boil in a separate pot (stirring like crazy or it will scorch) ... boil it for 15-20 mins or so and return it to the main pot just before you raise to your next rest. I would probably do it while your main mash is resting at 70C - pull the decoction, boil it while the mash is resting (dont worry if it rests at 70 for longer than the 10-15 mins) and drop the boiling hot decoction back in once its done to help you on your way (or maybe get you all the way) to 75-78

A decoction will add flavour to your brew... step mashing by itself wont.


You have a direct heated mash tun -- infusion steps are for other people, you don't need to do it.

TB

 

[daddymem]

Thanks Thirsty Boy!

Your step-decoction doesn't sound hard at all, I think I'll try that once I figure out a recipe.

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

It's not hard at all.

Although over two years old, the proof is in the Pictures, apparently.

That's TB and me (behind the camera) decocting a double-batch of German-style wheat beer. Not our bestest beer ever, but an interesting exercise nonetheless.

I've since decided that life is too short for decoctions. And German-style wheat beer. And exercise.

 

[daddymem]

Thanks for the pictures. Other suggestions on getting the flavor you get from decoction? I've gotta say, I am only going on the word of others, no idea what the decoction flavor is, but it seems to come up a lot as a needed thing for some of the wheat beers.

We're starting to plan for our next collaborative mash and the theme is wheat this time. I'm trying to come up with the first beer and I'd like a big wheat. I'm thinking a weizenbock or a doppelbock. I haven't lagered yet and with the potential of 2-3 beers from this brewday, not sure I want to tackle that just yet. I've done a hefe, and a dunkel and liked both, but a bit bigger is the idea. Any suggestions appreciated.

 

[RdeVjun]

Firstly, I'll second the motion 'its not hard to do a decoction', as Thirsty, Spills et al relate it is fairly simple to do.

Other suggestions on getting the flavor you get from decoction? I've gotta say, I am only going on the word of others, no idea what the decoction flavor is, but it seems to come up a lot as a needed thing for some of the wheat beers.

I probably haven't exhausted all the possibilities, not by a long shot, but I have yet to find a specialty/ base combination which replicates the flavours a decoction provides. FWIW, I've been farting around with a single decoction in my Landlord-esque ESBs, now I know that'll sound weird and it is probably not a common practice for English Pales, but decoction does something almost indescribable to a 100% base malt mash. Sort of like an aromatic/ Munich/ crystal malt boost but much cleaner, discrete and refined IMO.
I start by mashing in to a protein rest, I know it isn't needed with malts like GP, MO and Bairds Perle/Pale, but by starting there when the decoction is returned to the mash it is usually pretty close to saccharification rest temperature which is very convenient. I'll pull about 3L for the decoction, boiling it only takes 20 minutes to half an hour extra, the constant stirring can be tedious but is necessary I'm afraid.
If you want to give single decoction a whirl and like me you would normally have your mashing vessel completely full, I'd suggest mashing in with a bit less water, just in case you need to adjust mash temperature with hot/ cold additions, otherwise make sure you've got the scope to add some heat- it may not come in at quite the right temperature first time.

Just digressing slightly off topic to the Landlord-esque ESBs for a moment, caramelising a few litres of wort makes up a proportion of the desired flavour profile and both processes (decoction and caramelising) use the same pot- I use a 12L stockpot for them while BIABing in just a 19L stockpot. Then using Dr S' hops schedule with increased late hops, ferment with 1469 et voila! A Landlord- style with 100% base malt! The reason I've been doing this is that I've not been completely satisfied with the specialty malt versions, although the 3% Caraaroma one is quite good in its own right. Both decoction and caramelised wort add other dimensions to 100% base malt- I've been quite pleased with the results and I think it is worth the extra effort and while 100% base malt mashes may not be everyone's cup of tea, they give me a certain satisfaction in achieving the style I'm targeting while also exploring a single malt's capabilities.

My 2c... :icon_cheers:

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

...

Other suggestions on getting the flavor you get from decoction?

...

(Weyermann) Melanoidin Malt? I recall (probably incorrectly) that a well-known American home brewer uses it instead of decocting... Happy to be corrected.