Wyeast's Range

[Nick JD]

I was wondering about the "same yeast offered by different companies in different forms and names" thing.

And that many, if not all of these strains are actually commercial brewery's strains.

Who owns the strain? Anyone, or no one? Are they in public domain?

Does Wyeast pay royalties to Carlsberg and Hoegaaaarden?

 

[Bribie G]

I understand that some Wyeast yeasts aint yeasts. An example is Ringwood - the original strain came from the Hull Brewery in Yorkshire and was taken to the Ringwood Brewery in Hampshire. Then it travelled to the USA to become a popular microbrewery yeast. However I understand that the Ringwood as sold by Wyeast actually came from a Swedish Stout :huh: :huh: :huh:

Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad yeast and I can still pick Yorkshire type attributes, but still trying to work out why Sweden?

 

[Nick JD]

So someone could, in theory, buy Wyeast's entire range ... breed up sufficient quantities, dry and package it, and offer it to the public for sale for half the price?

Surely they have some commercial protection against that?

Would you pay $10, if you could get the same strain dry for $4?

 

[reviled]

Yeah but during that process, reculturing, drying etc, the strain is likely to mutate into something different from the original - similair, but different...

 

[Nick JD]

Yeah but during that process, reculturing, drying etc, the strain is likely to mutate into something different from the original - similair, but different...

Using the same techniques Fermentis use.

 

[vykuza]

So someone could, in theory, buy Wyeast's entire range ... breed up sufficient quantities, dry and package it, and offer it to the public for sale for half the price?

Surely they have some commercial protection against that?

Would you pay $10, if you could get the same strain dry for $4?

I don't see why they couldn't, as long as you didn't infringe on Wyeast's trademark. Call it Nick JD's Dried Yeast and you could go to town.

Theoretically, the "owner" of the yeast strain might have a run at patenting the genome of their strain, but they would need to prove that it's unique and developed by them. So it'd be a stretch I would think.

Would I buy the same strains dry for less than half the price? Sure if the quality was as good and I got the same results I would in a heartbeat.

 

[np1962]

Have heard this spoken about by Dave Logsden from Wyeast.
Yeast strains themselves can be patented but it is a buggar of a job to prove that one yeast is exactly the same as yours. The names that Wyeast/Whitelabs etc.. use for their strains are copyrighted so when you propogate the yeasts and sell them you cannot make any reference to these names without their permission. I don't think Wyeast are about to give you permission.
As far as drying yeasts, some strains are just not suited to drying as they just lose their character, otherwise Fermentis et al would have a much bigger range already.
Cheers
Nige

 

[Nick JD]

Have heard this spoken about by Dave Logsden from Wyeast.
Yeast strains themselves can be patented but it is a buggar of a job to prove that one yeast is exactly the same as yours. The names that Wyeast/Whitelabs etc.. use for their strains are copyrighted so when you propogate the yeasts and sell them you cannot make any reference to these names without their permission. I don't think Wyeast are about to give you permission.
As far as drying yeasts, some strains are just not suited to drying as they just lose their character, otherwise Fermentis et al would have a much bigger range already.
Cheers
Nige

Thanks, Nige - I was wondering why Fermentis didn't have a larger range.

I would think that Wyeast would be unable to apply for a patent on any yeast they didn't develop themselves with the whole prior art problem, and all. Most are strains that existed before Wyeast started selling them.

Are any of their strains solely theirs? Everyone knows pretty quickly that 1056 is US05 and I'm not convinced that Wyeast have a registered trademark on the words, "American Ale" or "Belgian Wit".

I'm not about to do this (got other things to keep me interested and busy), but some competition in the market would be nice.

If Wyeast have gotten their strains for free - what's to stop someone else? Say with the Biere de Garde strain - which some say is Fantome's strain - have they simply bought a few bottles of Fantome and cultured it up?

 

[np1962]

Thanks, Nige - I was wondering why Fermentis didn't have a larger range.

I would think that Wyeast would be unable to apply for a patent on any yeast they didn't develop themselves with the whole prior art problem, and all. Most are strains that existed before Wyeast started selling them.

Are any of their strains solely theirs? Everyone knows pretty quickly that 1056 is US05 and I'm not convinced that Wyeast have a registered trademark on the words, "American Ale" or "Belgian Wit".

I'm not about to do this (got other things to keep me interested and busy), but some competition in the market would be nice.

If Wyeast have gotten their strains for free - what's to stop someone else? Say with the Biere de Garde strain - which some say is Fantome's strain - have they simply bought a few bottles of Fantome and cultured it up?

Nick,
I think the trademark would cover "1056- American Ale" not just American Ale which is pretty generic.

Your last paragraph is pretty much spot on, Chris White started collecting strains that people gave him and some he collected himself from bottle conditioned beers and trips to breweries, got himself a good collection then decided to set up a lab and market them to brewers.
ProCulture in Perth are trying to do the same thing, albeit not without some teething problems. I for one would love to be able to sell an Australian produced yeast range.
Cheers
Nige

 

[vykuza]

If Wyeast have gotten their strains for free - what's to stop someone else? Say with the Biere de Garde strain - which some say is Fantome's strain - have they simply bought a few bottles of Fantome and cultured it up?

Nothing.

 

[felten]

Dry yeast has come a long way but there is still shortcomings in the form of higher bacteria loads and mutation of the strain like nige said, plus it's not cheap to setup. It would be great to have a yeast company in aus if it kept the prices down, and it would probably be a lot fresher as well.

 

[scott_penno]

It would be great to have a yeast company in aus if it kept the prices down, and it would probably be a lot fresher as well.

Like Proculture (www.proculture.com.au)? I've never used their products but am hopeful that we'll see their products at HBS's on the east coast somewhere in the future...

sap.

 

[Bribie G]

Dry yeast has come a long way but there is still shortcomings in the form of higher bacteria loads and mutation of the strain like nige said, plus it's not cheap to setup. It would be great to have a yeast company in aus if it kept the prices down, and it would probably be a lot fresher as well.

We have one already and their Lager yeast is ok for a fairly clean non stinky lager at 18 degrees. You would maybe have used their products during your K n K days.

http://www.maurivinyeast.com/yeast.aspx?op=show&id=4

Like Proculture (www.proculture.com.au)? I've never used their products but am hopeful that we'll see their products at HBS's on the east coast somewhere in the future...

sap.

Yes I've used their excellent and very familiar Proculture Stone Square Yeast. Nudge Nudge Wink Wink say no more say no more what's a nod to a blind bat hey h34r:

 

[warra48]

Yes I've used their excellent and very familiar Proculture Stone Square Yeast. Nudge Nudge Wink Wink say no more say no more what's a nod to a blind bat hey h34r:

When I read this, I looked at my watch, and thought the time was 14 hours 69 minutes.
Then I realised that couldn't be, but hey, it's nothing a beer or two won't fix.

 

[felten]

Like Proculture (www.proculture.com.au)? I've never used their products but am hopeful that we'll see their products at HBS's on the east coast somewhere in the future...

sap.

They are having technical problems atm though aren't they? It'd be great to see their products on this side of the country when they work it out.

 

[keifer33]

I think it was something to do with the packaging but they appear to be getting back up and running.

 

[np1962]

They are having technical problems atm though aren't they? It'd be great to see their products on this side of the country when they work it out.

Problems with packaging when airfreighted, were working on solutions. May be time to touch base again and see how they are going.
Homebrew yeasts are an offshoot of their main business not the priority.
Nige

 

[katzke]

I think there is a bit more to it then a room full of bubbling beakers of yeast. The cost to set up a lab just for the testing would likely get rewarded by doing something different then selling yeast to home brewers. Packaging would be a pain to set up as each run would have to be large enough to compensate for the down time and cost of cleaning the equipment.

If your goal were to sell yeast at half the price of the competition you would likely have to sell your product for something like 2 bucks. Retailers want half of the sale, then there is shipping. I would expect with spoilage and the cost of packaging you may get a buck a package.

Now if you had a micro brewery for about every 10,000 people, then you may be able to make some $ selling to them. You could also offer lab services to them.