Wort Chiller - Cant decide

[neo__04]

Hey all,

Designing my new brew rig and want to have some sort of wort cooling.
I am looking at either a plate chiller or counterflow chiller.
I like the idea of the plate chiller, mounted to the brew frame, small and easy to use.

Is a plate chiller like the http://craftbrewer.com.au/shop/details.asp?PID=3949 similar in efficiency to a counter flow chiller?

Cant decide which way to go.

As for my water, Its 20 degrees today and the water temp is 18.5.

 

[S.E]

I prefer counterflow as you can recirculate wort through it during the boil to clean and sanitise it and it won’t clog up with hops like a plate chiller can.

 

[Parks]

Plate chillers are bloody brilliant but you really need to have your kettle filter options sorted. I have yet to come to an awesome solution between flow-rate, recirculation and optimum filtering.

 

[seamad]

When I use my plate chiller I run the hot wort through a hop rocket first, never had the chiller block yet. Stuff the rocket with flowers usually and they filter the wort. If I want to use pellets then I tie them up in a muslin cloth "swag" and put in a couple of SS scrubbies as well, again no probs yet.
To me this is the biggest advantage of a plate chiller, locking in all that hoppy goodness. I'm on tank water and return waste water back into the tank. In summer even with underground tanks I have probs getting to pitching temp. I have thought of either running the water through a copper coil in an ice bucket or buying another plate chiller and mount that in series with independent water supplies.
Maybe should just be more patient and run the wort through a lot slower..

 

[neo__04]

yeah that seems to be the major pitfall of the plate chillers.
I normally use hop pellets, in a hob bag. Would that help? Or do you still need a hopblocker of some variety on your pickup to stop any left over sediment?

 

[gava]

Hi,

I recently did a little write up on what we've found with chillers, you can find it here

feed back welcome.

Cheers
Gavin.

 

[Bribie G]

I'll claim first post before the rest of the no chill brigade jump in: I'm no chill in a cube myself and don't see the absolute need for a coil or plate chiller,


However


No chill is an excellent way of cooling wort overnight, and pitch the next day or even just put the cube of wort aside till you are ready to pitch.

I went no chill in Queensland as the local water is not icy as in parts of the Southern Continent, such as where the OP lives. I even attended a brewday in Brisbane where a participant offered around a plate chiller for free, and nobody was interested.

On the other side of the coin I have also attended a brew day in Brisbane where the guy had a pond pump, immersion chiller and buckets of ice, and pitched his yeast only a few minutes after draining the kettle. I could definitely see that advantage.

In the case of the OP who lives in a cold area in the winter staring at Antarctica h34r: , I would say that the choice between no chilling (20 dollar cube) or a counterflow or immersion chiller ($$$$$) is actually a little more fine that QLD and boils down to whether you want to pitch tonight or tomorrow.

Some adjustments may need to be done re hop additions etc but no real affect on the finished beer. (takes modesty cap off, all my comp wins have been no chilled(.

 

[seamad]

Pretty well agree with Bribie.
I only got a plate chiller because I wanted a hop rocket. I still do no chill beers. Only ever use the chiller when using thr rocket to make some extra hoppy beers ( aroma/taste )

 

[gava]

Never done no chill but tasted beers that have been no chilled and they taste nice, How do you go with the Cold Break and no chill? Do you suffer from cloudy beers? Spoilage quicker?

Gav

 

[neo__04]

Well as i was typing my response gava replied with the same question.

From what i read you want to cool the wort asap to reduce dms, then ideally whirlpool to reduce cold break.

So with no chill, is dms present but not enough to notice, any coldbreak gets straigned out before fermenter? Like through a biab bag or something.

Thanks again, very informative.

 

[booargy]

I like don burkes http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/52416-don-burkes-new-brewery/page-4

 

[Tex083]

In response to the question, its the lenght that matters not the number of plates for efficency.
I no chill as I dont have a chiller and when ever I save up the cash for one I can see many other places in the brewery where I could spend the money!
Camlocks, Whirlpool arm, Better Bottle fermenter, better pump, the list goes on!

Cheers
Tex

 

[Bribie G]

Ok Neo, break 101



Not to mention DMS

DMS: (dimethyl sulpide, cooked corn or cabbage twang) can be produced in mashes with old-school lager malts but I've never ever experienced it after hundreds of brews with all sorts of malts.

Break: There are two types of break material, during the boil many malt proteins and other compounds flocculate to give a sort of "breadcrumb soup" that settles out at the end of the boil. This is the hot break.

The resulting clear hot wort, when either suddenly cooled or run off into a cube will produce a further break known as the cold break. The cold break looks a bit like jelly and is fairly harmless. No matter what method of cooling you use, including no chill, you will get cold break.

A few years ago I did an experiment with cold break. I did two identical brews and ran them into two cubes. When cool, I ran the clear top of two cubes into one FV and the cloudy with cold break bottoms into a second FV,

Little or no difference, (I took the resulting beer to a club meeting for a blind test)



Whirlpooling has no effect on cold break as you are at hot side temperatures.

Cold break isn't really an issue.

 

[gava]

Ok Neo, break 101



Not to mention DMS

DMS: (dimethyl sulpide, cooked corn or cabbage twang) can be produced in mashes with old-school lager malts but I've never ever experienced it after hundreds of brews with all sorts of malts.

Break: There are two types of break material, during the boil many malt proteins and other compounds flocculate to give a sort of "breadcrumb soup" that settles out at the end of the boil. This is the hot break.

The resulting clear hot wort, when either suddenly cooled or run off into a cube will produce a further break known as the cold break. The cold break looks a bit like jelly and is fairly harmless. No matter what method of cooling you use, including no chill, you will get cold break.

A few years ago I did an experiment with cold break. I did two identical brews and ran them into two cubes. When cool, I ran the clear top of two cubes into one FV and the cloudy with cold break bottoms into a second FV,

Little or no difference, (I took the resulting beer to a club meeting for a blind test)

cold break experiment 2.jpg

Whirlpooling has no effect on cold break as you are at hot side temperatures.

Cold break isn't really an issue.

I've had DMS in a lager which I boiled for 60mins (Yes I know 90 should be done but for some reason I hadn't)
I highly recommend not doing this, was foul ended with a keg being tipped.

If the cold break isn't an issue with no chill, It sounds like it's simply a convenience thing with having your brew tucked away and pitched in one day and not having to wake up with a post brew hangover to pitch your yeast also not having to adjust recipes for no chill , although I think beer smith has this option now.

I would also think It would be highly dependant of brewers fermenting in fridges. If I was fermenting my beer within a room which had a constant temperature it would take a long time to adjust down to pitching temp. You could also use the old ice bath trick then put in your room.

So if what I'm thinking is right then....

if you want your beer tucked away quickly get a chiller.
If you don't have a fermenting fridge and the price of a fridge v's chiller is close and you don't have room for a fridge, get a chiller.
if you have a fermenting fridge and want to spend cash on other bits, no chill it.
if your a cash up buy everything

In the end you can try it, if it doesn't work for you buy a chiller your not married to no chill It's all about finding what works for you on your budget.

Cheers
Gavin

 

[neo__04]

Good info, thanks again.

I've got a kegerator that i had been using for fermenting because i didnt have the keg setup working properly.
Once the kegs are full, it will be a fridge again.
I normally ferment with an immersion heater, but it would be nice to get a fridge i could fit 2 fermenters in.

Choices choices, I do like the idea of no chill. Makes it a quick and easy end to the brewday.

 

[MastersBrewery]

Good info, thanks again.

I've got a kegerator that i had been using for fermenting because i didnt have the keg setup working properly.
Once the kegs are full, it will be a fridge again.
I normally ferment with an immersion heater, but it would be nice to get a fridge i could fit 2 fermenters in.

Choices choices, I do like the idea of no chill. Makes it a quick and easy end to the brewday.

for ferment fridges The biggest cost is running them, which in the end is very little, both the ferment fridges I use cost me less than $90, temp control probably another $20 each, now if I was going to push the limits I could ferment 160L and control temps all for $130. I usually have one of these fridges set for cold crash, fermenting in the other at around 17c. I have in the past place hot (say 40c+ ) in the CC fridge for a while to bring temps down to pitch temp. This works for me. I have considered with my next system a mix of CFC and no chill using a mix of hopping methods, purely so I can brew 80L in a day and save half for months or even years later. Ferm chambers a offer a degree of chilling but I have to say your hopping regime must reflect the speed at which you are going to cool your wort, end of the day your after consistency and predictability.

MB

 

[davedoran]

although I think beer smith has this option now.

Can anyone confirm this. I have BS2.2 and the mobile app but haven't come across this option yet?

 

[Bribie G]

BrewMate has a no chill check box on the main recipe screen.

 

[davedoran]

Yeah have that thanks. I use to do the recipes in brewmate then discovered beer smith.
I used to just input the recipe into brewmate after I had designed it and ticked the box. Just down to laziness I don't anymore but should just to see where im at.

 

[gava]

I might be thinking about BIAB... not at home so can't check software.