Witbier trouble

[dannymars]

Hey guys,

Looking for a little expert (or not-so-expert) guidance...

Witbier

50% pale malt
50% flaked wheat

small hop addition @45 mins

spice additions... @ 5mins

20g Orange peel
15g Coriander Seed (lightly cracked)
5g Chamomile

I've now kegged this beer and it's not really what I'd hoped.

malt/wheat balance is good, colour is perfect... however the spices are all wrong.

Chamomile is just dominating everything, makes the beer almost taste like a cup of tea :unsure:

I tried adding orange/coriander to a few samples to see if I could "keg-hop" with some of the less dominant spices....

However my experiments with glasses of beer tasted pretty rough, and besides that, the oil in the peel just killed the nice head that the beer had.

Any ideas if this is even salvageable? Or should I just try to drink it fast and get on with the next batch of (hopefully) better beer.

thanks in advance.

 

[Adr_0]

What was your batch size? Orange peel in the boil shouldn't impact your head.

 

[dannymars]

20 litre batch...

head is fine,,, but if I add a bit of peel to a glass of beer it kills the head completely, meaning I cannot add peel to the keg without this possibly wrecking the head retention of the entire batch.

 

[Blind Dog]

Are you sure you only used 5g of chamomile? I've always found it pretty subtle even with a significantly bigger addition. My issue is usually with the coriander

You could try dried peel, or even low sugar bitter marmalade in a boil and add that to the keg or try other spices, but IME it's pretty hard to correct for a dominant flavour

Another alternative would be to re-brew without chamomile and then blend once finished

 

[dannymars]

Yeah defo only 5g, was about 4 teabag's worth.

I was also pretty surprised how dominant it is considering the ratios. The coriander I crushed smelled super strong on brew day too. surprised how little of it I can taste.

 

[dannymars]

Thanks for your suggestions...

Doesn't taste super bad, just doesn't have that fresh pop-zing that a good witbier has... I've read that the spice ratios/amounts are easy to get wrong and to tread with caution. But I never suspected that chamomile would be the one to over-power my beer.

 

[Adr_0]

1g/litre orange peel is fine. The oils should all come up to the surface on your boil and should largely stick to your kettle (not make it across to the beer) so you shouldn't see head retention drop off - however a fresh bit of peel might have that effect.

I thought most people used chamomile tea bags, e.g. 2-3 steeped for 2-3min in the boil. Did you use chamomile tea or an extract?

And which yeast did you use? You should get a fantastic witbier with yeast alone, though I thought a more traditional mix was 50% pils, 25% extra pale malted wheat, 25% flaked wheat. What were your mash temps like? I would have gone on the 64-65°C range with a gravity of 1.048-1.050 or so. What about your fermentation temps?

 

[RdeVjun]

One thing that does often happen with Wit is the flavours become muted before you know it, however it is usually the citrus that does that, so you may just have to grin & bear it.

 

[dannymars]

1g/litre orange peel is fine. The oils should all come up to the surface on your boil and should largely stick to your kettle (not make it across to the beer) so you shouldn't see head retention drop off - however a fresh bit of peel might have that effect.

I thought most people used chamomile tea bags, e.g. 2-3 steeped for 2-3min in the boil. Did you use chamomile tea or an extract?

And which yeast did you use? You should get a fantastic witbier with yeast alone, though I thought a more traditional mix was 50% pils, 25% extra pale malted wheat, 25% flaked wheat. What were your mash temps like? I would have gone on the 64-65°C range with a gravity of 1.048-1.050 or so. What about your fermentation temps?

I used chamomile teabags.

I used Wyeast Belgian Witbier yeast. I fermented it at room temp in my house, which was sitting at an even 20C for three weeks. took 2.5 weeks for the krausen to fall... kegged at just under 3 weeks.

my OG was 1.045 mash temp was 66.5C for 75 mins.

So, if I separately boil some peel in water and add the resulting water to the beer it might work? I think I just need a bit more zing to offset the chamomile flavour...

 

[Adr_0]

Maybe give this a read:
https://byo.com/stories/item/1647-witbier-style-profile

It's written by Jamil so - unlike most BYO articles - it might have done credence.

 

[dannymars]

Yep, read that before I did the batch... Pretty happy with the haze/appearance, carbonation, head, attenuation, etc... it's just this overpowering chamomile that's got me buggered.

 

[Adr_0]

Looks like his chamomile dose is only 1g for a 19L batch and his fresh orange peel is a fair bit higher, that's all.

 

[dannymars]

OK.. so I didn't go by the actual recipe at the bottom.. I went by the article alone...

If you have fresh chamomile, use about 0.25 oz. (7 g); otherwise, use chamomile teabags. Many chamomile teas have additional herbs and spices so only use types with just chamomile flowers. You’ll need about three tea bags for a 5-gallon (19-L) batch, although I’ve used as many as ten bags without it becoming overwhelming. Cut open the bags and toss the flowers into the boil for the last five minutes.

hmmm

Measure the zest by weight, targeting about one to two ounces (28 to 57 g) in a 5-gallon (19-L) batch.

I guess I should have done more, since I don't have a zester, I just used a peeler.