Wiring Temp Control into Fridge

[Ducatiboy stu]

Did you not read the word IF ,followed by,they were(where) competent ?

How do you know IF they are competant

 

[Barge]

How do you know IF she's a which

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

She will weigh the same as an RCD

 

[Camo6]

What?!
Did you hear me advise against grounding the door??? I don't think we're on the same page mate as I would NEVER make that advice to anyone.. ever. If you have a component mounted or wires running through a metal space or conduit it has got to be grounded. FULL STOP!!
I advised to add an RCD and you went off.. I quoted your comment (that I liked and appreciated) to make it safer and that is a safety device and one that I appreciate having on everything I build.
I'm still skull fucked as to when I tried to undermine anything you said in the post I quoted.... Am I missing something?

Cheer up Charlie. Would hardly say I went off. Just making point of why you can't just fall back and rely on an RCD. I don't doubt you know this and wasn't employing otherwise but not everyone is aware.

Then you had to throw cuss words in and, to top it all off, excessive punctuation marks. For a minute there I almost let the internet upset me.

Gonna go drown my sorrows at Brewforky's place. I hear his fridge is to die for.

 

[Brew Forky]

Yeah mate. I'm gonna get one of those divided lunch boxes, fill half with water and chuck the control probe in it. The other half will house the control unit after being wired up to the fridge globe with the glass taken off. All good.

Talking about competency though. My house went through a stage where there was no way to turn off the power. I got my electrician mate around to fix it but he couldn't because he was too scared, and said he had to call the electricity company to find out when the electricity was being shut down to the area. Not competent. Called a guy on Gumtree and he installed a new power box and RCD in 15 minutes. Competent. Told my mate and he said the other electrician was out of his mind. No, he wasn't, he was competent.

 

[Pokey]

See, this is just the kind of misinformation that creates the accidents that result in stronger laws that you or I might deem common sense.
A Residual Current Device compares in current with out current and trips if a difference is detected. What causes it to trip? EARTH LEAKAGE. If dem electrons can't escape to ground then for all the RCD knows it's still supplying a load.
However, give it somewhere to escape, ie an earth circuit or your bare tootsies on bare earth, and some of that current won't make it back to the RCD and you'll likely survive when it trips within 30ms.
What if, without an earth, that door takes on 240v and sits there ready to jump to the first thing to give it a way down to that sweet sweet dirt? What if the first thing that touches it is you, sneaking out to check your brew, wearing your insulated workboots? No path to ground, so you light up like a Christmas tree and the RCD might as well be a Snickers bar as even that would stand a greater chance of saving you.
Sure, the scenario might seem unlikely but most of these safety regulations are put in place due to these scenarios. An RCD is only to be used to augment a protected circuit, not to be its soul protection.
There's a good reason for the AS3000 and the electrical trade being licensed. There's also good reason for a lot of the laws implemented in Australia. Sure, a lot of them are a crock or there to protect the stoopid but considering that workplace deaths are usually more than double the annual road toll, surely it's got its merits?
I've seen pictures of what can happen in countries that don't put the same value on life as in Australia and I can tell you where I'd rather live.

My understanding of RCDs, they monitor the current in the active and neutral, if they deviate by 30mA the RCD trips.
The circuit also needs over current protection.
In the above case of the door being live, with no RCD you would need to trip the over current protection, probably 16 or 20 amp breaker. Only likely if the door is earthed, definitely bad if the door isn't earthed and you complete the circuit. Same senario with an RCD, the door can still be live if it's not earthed, if you touch it and you are insulated(work boots) nothing will happen, if you are earthed the RCD will trip, you'll have a bad day but probably survive. If the door is earthed the RCD will trip at 30ma.

Basically, install RCDs and earth everything.
And humidity and electronics is bad

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

My understanding of RCDs, they monitor the current in the active and neutral, if they deviate by 30mA the RCD trips.
The circuit also needs over current protection.
In the above case of the door being live, with no RCD you would need to trip the over current protection, probably 16 or 20 amp breaker. Only likely if the door is earthed, definitely bad if the door isn't earthed and you complete the circuit. Same senario with an RCD, the door can still be live if it's not earthed, if you touch it and you are insulated(work boots) nothing will happen, if you are earthed the RCD will trip, you'll have a bad day but probably survive. If the door is earthed the RCD will trip at 30ma.

Basically, install RCDs and earth everything.
And humidity and electronics is bad

Not sure if you have ever touched a live active even with insulated work boots on..

Personally I dont recommend it.....

 

[Pokey]

Not sure if you have ever touched a live active even with insulated work boots on..

Personally I dont recommend it.....

I wouldn't either and I was referring to the "insulated" work boots in the quote. Work boots unless brand new are unlikely to insulate

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Even insulated ones will bite you...not always...but they can

 

[Camo6]

I wouldn't either and I was referring to the "insulated" work boots in the quote. Work boots unless brand new are unlikely to insulate

Yeah, my scenario may be a little unlikely as you wouldn't cross active and neutral opening the door but I was a little heatstruck and had a few beers under the belt. Still, the message I'm trying to get across is not to take any chances with electrical safety.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Still, the message I'm trying to get across is not to take any chances with electrical safety.

Amen brother

 

[kunfaced]

ll it takes is half an amp. that's 0.5A or 500mA across a healthy heart for someone to die. Guess what's between your arm and your feet where the electricity wants to look for ground? Advice has been put out there to be concerned about. By regulations you are obliged to do what you want, as the fridge is an appliance. As a true libertarian, I applaud your self-independence and ability to do things for yourself. Electricity is safe if you are sensible about it. Needless to say though you would be a fool to not take any of the advice given. I don't think the OP is a fool, in light of all his efforts. There is no need to cut-throat each other over semantics. It is the OP's thread, and they have taken all sensible avenues on their venture. Let's not muddle their intentions, and behave like sober adults. If we scare the OP off, we may never hear about how awesome the idea could end up being.

 

[wildburkey]

Thanks for your concerns and input everyone, I have been flat out over the weekend and only just come back to this and honestly don't have the time just atm to individually reply to every post here. For now I'd like to point out there is some good debate within this thread and I personally had concerns about posting it but decided to go ahead using a disclaimer. Stu raises a fair point in web liability and others likewise have identified my main intention (to get input and inspire ideas) and given great advice in making this project safer and had fair points for keeping the thread. I'll get back soon and review this, I'd like to hear from mods here what their opinion is on the topic.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

ll it takes is half an amp. that's 0.5A or 500mA across a healthy heart for someone to die. Guess what's between your arm and your feet where the electricity wants to look for ground? Advice has been put out there to be concerned about. By regulations you are obliged to do what you want, as the fridge is an appliance. As a true libertarian, I applaud your self-independence and ability to do things for yourself. Electricity is safe if you are sensible about it. Needless to say though you would be a fool to not take any of the advice given. I don't think the OP is a fool, in light of all his efforts. There is no need to cut-throat each other over semantics. It is the OP's thread, and they have taken all sensible avenues on their venture. Let's not muddle their intentions, and behave like sober adults. If we scare the OP off, we may never hear about how awesome the idea could end up being.

Your post is wrong on so many levels.....Truly scary that you would post that...**** me....

The first 10 WORDS are unbelievable


Its post like this that scare me the most

 

[kunfaced]

Your post is wrong on so many levels.....Truly scary that you would post that...**** me....

The first 10 WORDS are unbelievable


Its post like this that scare me the most

At least offer an explanation.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

The explanation is in your post

 

[GibboQLD]

I was happy to just eat my popcorn and enjoy this thread, but had to jump in:

it takes is half an amp. that's 0.5A or 500mA across a healthy heart for someone to die.

AS/NZS 60479.1 disagrees (there are also a lot more variables to it than magnitude of fault current):

AC-1 and AC-2 are typically survivable (albeit more painful as time/current/both increase), AC-3 is nominally survivable but much more painful (and potentially fatal depending on the individual), and AC-4 (including 4.1/4.2/4.3) is just bad news (cardiac arrest, breathing arrest, burns, ventricular fibrillation, you get the picture...).

If any part of the overall protection system fails and you manage to get hooked up for a second or two, as little as 50mA can put you in a whole world of hurt, assuming you win the probability game and your heart/breathing doesn't stop first.

 

[S.E]

How would you know if they where competent..?

I wouldn’t know and it wouldn’t be my call. I wasn’t advising on how to wire anything up.

What I said was “I don’t have a problem with people doing their own wiring if they are competent to do so”. They would need to decide themselves if they are competent and work within their limitations.

Most people are capable of understanding and learning to carry out simple household wiring repairs and installations but cannot legally do so any more. Unfortunately they cannot learn these skills from their parents, relatives or friends as used to be the case.

They now must call a licensed sparky who will charge an excessive amount of money (because they need to make it worth their while) to do a simple job like install an extra socket or light in their house.

In theory getting a licensed sparky in should ensure the work is carried out properly and safely, but as previously discussed in practice it doesn’t. Don’t even get me started on gas fitters.

The nanny state mentality in Australia and the not far behind UK does worry me. People are becoming so dependent on others to keep them safe.

Seeing youngsters crossing the road on the way to the local high school scares the crap out of me. They all without exception press the button on the crossing and as soon as the little green man tells them it’s safe to cross they do so, talking to each other or staring straight ahead without looking left or right to see if the oncoming traffic is actually going to stop. They just assume drivers will see the red light and stop as they are supposed to.

Whatever happened to the Green Cross Code?

 

[barls]

ok enough on the political views on the so called nanny state and discussion on who is competent
this has gone far enough off track.
its the law that it has to be done that way so that the end of the discussion.

 

[Tex N Oz]

ok enough on the political views on the so called nanny state and discussion on who is competent
this has gone far enough off track.
its the law that it has to be done that way so that the end of the discussion.

What law?