Wiring Temp Control into Fridge

[Ducatiboy stu]

Would you like the mods & admin to stop the posting of brewing alcohol? After all there is so much depression, violence, injury and death caused by it?

NO. just the post regarding wiring up elctricity

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I have also seen and employed a few qualified sparkies that got it wrong and had to put it right myself. I am not a sparky.

That is truly scary

And yet you advocate people being allowed to do their own wiring....

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

It's an appliance though so OP can do what they want. A

And this is true.( and it bullshit that the law allows this to happen ...)

But I dont think we should be condoning the wiring up of persons own devices

Just because it might be legal does not make an excuse for allowing people to do potentially unsafe modifications

Sorry S.E...but not a hope in hell of me EVER agreeing with you on this subject..NOT EVER

 

[Brew Forky]

Then you pay the money for a Keg King Temp controller and the LHBS is screaming at your stupidity. It's then placed in a hopefully fire retardant area. Dangerous game this brewing caper

 

[Camo6]

I don’t think the op is trying to create an online guide for a potential death trap, but putting forward his idea and open to and taking on board input and suggestion.

I'm not saying the OP is but if no one added any input or suggestion towards making it safer (which is what we're doing yeah?) then it inadvertently could become one. But, in true forum fashion, let's keep flogging a dead horse.

 

[Tex N Oz]

I'm not saying the OP is but if no one added any input or suggestion towards making it safer (which is what we're doing yeah?) then it inadvertently could become one. But, in true forum fashion, let's keep flogging a dead horse.

Install an inline RCD just to ensure you don't have an "aww shit moment". There are things you can do to increase safety.
I'm a bit torn on the subject to be honest. Mains can be potentially fatal but so can just about anything else in life. I've spent most of my career working in the US and Canada where job-site safety is an after-thought but one helluva lot more productive. I remember working as a contractor at a mine site in WA and it took me 8 hours of paperwork and waiting for safety just to have access to an HV switchboard to check oil levels in a couple of switches. Elsewhere, I'd have been in and out in 5 minutes.
I think the mentality has went a bit too far to one side and there has to be a balance found between productivity and safety. I personally think the common man should be able to use his own discretion and not be subject to complete "nannyism". Perhaps there should be a thread started on electrical basics and safety instead of demanding we can't do it. We all know that people are going to do it right or wrong, illegal or legal, safe or unsafe. Education is a good fundamental building-block to safety.

 

[S.E]

I am a sparky and I do nothing but fix other peoples crap. Bad things have pointed out and it should be done right. It's an appliance though so OP can do what they want. At least if you're a Catholic drinker, you wont be proof of Darwinism.

PS the qualified sparky who checked it out should be checked via resit of A grade exams.

I agree that potential bad things have been pointed out and it should be done right. It was me who voiced concerns that live wires inside a fermenting fridge could be a hazard in the first place.

Fridges are not really designed to be used as fermenting chambers. Fermenting wort can cause excessive condensation in a fridge that wouldn’t normally be present when the appliance is used for its intended purpose.

The op has connected his STC to the existing 220v supply to the light. This would be exposed and unsealed from moisture regardless of whether he had connected to it or not.

In your professional opinion do you think my concern is unfounded and that extending the live light wire to another location within the fridge is the only problem even though he intends to seal it?

 

[S.E]

That is truly scary

And yet you advocate people being allowed to do their own wiring....

It is truly scary, so who would you suggest should do wiring? We have both seen and agree that even qualified electricians can get it wrong and carry out shoddy work. I don’t have a problem with people doing their own wiring if they are competent to do so. I’ve always wired my own and other people’s houses.

I wired new a house that a friend was building and when the engineer arrived to connect the electricity he wasn’t happy when he realised I wasn’t an electrician. He thought I was a heating engineer as I was installing the central heating at the time.

After going through my work with a fine tooth comb he came in to the utility room where I was connecting a copper pipe to the boiler. The pipe was the diesel supply that lead out to a metal tank in the garden. He smugly told me he wasn’t going to connect us up as he wanted a short section of plastic pipe joined to the copper where it entered the house so the tank would be isolated from the house.

About an hour after he left his boss rang my friend and said not to install the plastic pipe pointing out the potential fire hazard that if there was ever a fire in the utility room it would be fueled with gallons of diesel when the pipe melted.

[SIZE=11pt]Matey was back with his tail between his legs to connect us up later that day. [/SIZE]

 

[S.E]

And this is true.( and it bullshit that the law allows this to happen ...)

But I dont think we should be condoning the wiring up of persons own devices

Just because it might be legal does not make an excuse for allowing people to do potentially unsafe modifications

Sorry S.E...but not a hope in hell of me EVER agreeing with you on this subject..NOT EVER

That’s a bit hypocritical since it was you who advised me on wiring my fridge!!

Have a read through this thread Stu.

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/77976-any-refrigeration-engineers-or-anyone-competent-with-fridges/

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Yes it is hypocritical of me back them

I no longer offer advice because I came to the realisation that it was not a good idea

 

[S.E]

Yes it is hypocritical of me back them

I no longer offer advice because I came to the realisation that it was not a good idea

Fair enough, but I disagree that it a bad idea. As Tex N Oz said people are going to do it anyway so best they learn to do it right.

After all what is the alternative, call an electrician? We both agree that calling a qualified sparky is no guarantee that the job will be done properly and safely.

How would you suggest people get their fermenting fridges wired?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I don’t have a problem with people doing their own wiring if they are competent to do so.

How would you know if they where competent..?

 

[Barge]

We all know that people are going to do it right or wrong, illegal or legal, safe or unsafe. Education is a good fundamental building-block to safety.

I agree. By discussing kettle element wiring I now have an IP rated and safe setup that is fully enclosed and grounded. Hopefully some people realised by reading that thread that their set-ups were less than ideal.

Personally I would like to see the mods & admin stop the posting of things to do with electrical wiring.

This is why I didn't update the tread with detailed pictures and instructions of how I sealed the element enclosure, earthed the kettle, etc. The last thing I wanted (and presumably the last thing the OP in this thread wants) is to present a step-by-step DIY guide to wiring a kettle / fridge / 1V mash controller.

It is fair enough for people to seek advice here as there are very knowledgeable people here who understand the application of the systems we are trying to build. Each thread that I have read that involves wiring highlights emphatically the need to have wiring completed by a licensed electrician. It's good that we can get a second opinion here so that we are not relying on a sole person who may not fully understand the context or who has less experience.

 

[Camo6]

Install an inline RCD just to ensure you don't have an "aww shit moment". There are things you can do to increase safety.

See, this is just the kind of misinformation that creates the accidents that result in stronger laws that you or I might deem common sense.

A Residual Current Device compares in current with out current and trips if a difference is detected. What causes it to trip? EARTH LEAKAGE. If dem electrons can't escape to ground then for all the RCD knows it's still supplying a load.

However, give it somewhere to escape, ie an earth circuit or your bare tootsies on bare earth, and some of that current won't make it back to the RCD and you'll likely survive when it trips within 30ms.

What if, without an earth, that door takes on 240v and sits there ready to jump to the first thing to give it a way down to that sweet sweet dirt? What if the first thing that touches it is you, sneaking out to check your brew, wearing your insulated workboots? No path to ground, so you light up like a Christmas tree and the RCD might as well be a Snickers bar as even that would stand a greater chance of saving you.

Sure, the scenario might seem unlikely but most of these safety regulations are put in place due to these scenarios. An RCD is only to be used to augment a protected circuit, not to be its soul protection.

There's a good reason for the AS3000 and the electrical trade being licensed. There's also good reason for a lot of the laws implemented in Australia. Sure, a lot of them are a crock or there to protect the stoopid but considering that workplace deaths are usually more than double the annual road toll, surely it's got its merits?

I've seen pictures of what can happen in countries that don't put the same value on life as in Australia and I can tell you where I'd rather live.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

+1

RCD's & ELCB only work in certain situations when installed correctly

They also fail

Just saying " use an RCD and you will be right :" is a bit like putting the front wheel back on your car with only 1 wheel nut and saying it will be right cause I wear I seatbelt when I drive

 

[Tex N Oz]

See, this is just the kind of misinformation that creates the accidents that result in stronger laws that you or I might deem common sense.

A Residual Current Device compares in current with out current and trips if a difference is detected. What causes it to trip? EARTH LEAKAGE. If dem electrons can't escape to ground then for all the RCD knows it's still supplying a load.

However, give it somewhere to escape, ie an earth circuit or your bare tootsies on bare earth, and some of that current won't make it back to the RCD and you'll likely survive when it trips within 30ms.

What if, without an earth, that door takes on 240v and sits there ready to jump to the first thing to give it a way down to that sweet sweet dirt? What if the first thing that touches it is you, sneaking out to check your brew, wearing your insulated workboots? No path to ground, so you light up like a Christmas tree and the RCD might as well be a Snickers bar as even that would stand a greater chance of saving you.

Sure, the scenario might seem unlikely but most of these safety regulations are put in place due to these scenarios. An RCD is only to be used to augment a protected circuit, not to be its soul protection.

There's a good reason for the AS3000 and the electrical trade being licensed. There's also good reason for a lot of the laws implemented in Australia. Sure, a lot of them are a crock or there to protect the stoopid but considering that workplace deaths are usually more than double the annual road toll, surely it's got its merits?

I've seen pictures of what can happen in countries that don't put the same value on life as in Australia and I can tell you where I'd rather live.

Well, an RCD is designed to trip not in 30ms but 30ma with 32ma being the maximum deviation.
I've several industrial wet area tools sitting outside with RCDs on them and they are APPROVED in Australia with no other safety but that device and the upstream overload protection.
So by your comment, you are saying that an RCD is a totally ineffective device and advising someone install one on an appliance is bad advice? **** me.

 

[Camo6]

Good one mate. In a thread where I've been commenting on the need to earth a conductive part in order to achieve an earth fault circuit you try and twist my words with that shit. Read my post. Without an earth, what's the point in throwing in an inline RCD? Are you advising the next bloke to read this post to relax and just chuck a portable RCD in? She'll be right mate.

So, are your outdoor appliances the same category as a fridge? Do they have unearthed, exposed components?

When did I mention trip current? To be fair it's more like 40ms for a typical RCD but you spelt mA wrong.

 

[Tex N Oz]

Good one mate. In a thread where I've been commenting on the need to earth a conductive part in order to achieve an earth fault circuit you try and twist my words with that shit. Read my post. Without an earth, what's the point in throwing in an inline RCD? Are you advising the next bloke to read this post to relax and just chuck a portable RCD in? She'll be right mate.

So, are your outdoor appliances the same category as a fridge? Do they have unearthed, exposed components?

When did I mention trip current? To be fair it's more like 40ms for a typical RCD but you spelt mA wrong.

What?!
Did you hear me advise against grounding the door??? I don't think we're on the same page mate as I would NEVER make that advice to anyone.. ever. If you have a component mounted or wires running through a metal space or conduit it has got to be grounded. FULL STOP!!
I advised to add an RCD and you went off.. I quoted your comment (that I liked and appreciated) to make it safer and that is a safety device and one that I appreciate having on everything I build.
I'm still skull fucked as to when I tried to undermine anything you said in the post I quoted.... Am I missing something?

 

[Brew Forky]

Are you advising the next bloke to read this post to relax and just chuck a portable RCD in? She'll be right mate.

Sounds good to me. I'm gonna chuck a STC-1000 into the fridge and hook her up to the light globe. It'll be safe in it's lunch box . Get myself one of those portable RCD thingos, wire it through the plastic and put it on the top shelf. Bad ass beer without out a hitch.

 

[spog]

How would you know if they where competent..?

Did you not read the word IF ,followed by,they were(where) competent ?