Williamswarn Personal Brewery

[wobbly]

Here you say your beer won awards.

Earlier (another thread) you'd mentioned you couldn't quite nail down a good beer, something was missing till you used a williamswank.

So, are you trying to tell us your award winning beers were a bit meh?

Practicalfool re your above post referencing that I had mentioned "that I couldn't nail down a good beer" in fairness to what I did say back in post #36 you have misquoted me - what I did say was

•I haven't yet been able to master the technique to produce a first class Pilsner which the one from TWOC's set up was

One of my missions is still to brew a good pilsner something that has avoided me to date for one reason or another most being either recipe design and/or yeast preparation.

As you will have noted from various posts through out this topic is my ability to manage the amount of "break" material I am getting carried over from the BM to the WW and it is this subject that has my attention at this time rather than pursuing the "perfect pilsner" and to this end I have started another topic on methods of minimising Hot/Cold break carry over.

Winning a first place in a comp doesn't automatically mean the beer is great, it just means the beer was better than the other competing ones.
If there are three beers competing in a class and one of them is shit, and the other two are really shit than the shit one gets a first place.

I'm sure at least one of my beers that got a first place was a bit meh or even worse, that's why it sometimes makes me smile when people boast on here with their placings.

If you win gold by BJCP standards, well that's a different story, but a first place really doesn't necessarily have to mean all that much.

So in summary, quite possible that Wobbly got a first place but wasn't really happy with the beer.

Yes you are very correct Florian that first place doesn't automatically mean a great beer. My beer was a Pale Ale and from memory there were 25 to 30 entries and yes I guess mine was judged to be the best of a possible poor/bad bunch but then again just maybe it was better than that. I don't recall how the judges scored the beer so whether it complied with BJCP standards I don't know. I was just thrilled to get the awards that I did for that beer and those that drink at my place don't seem to mind coming back for a few more.

So in conclusion I am happy with my Pale Ales and have somewhere to go with Pilsners once I resolve as best I can the amount of sediment in the WW sediment bottle/trap. Just like members have had to find some/a work around for aspects of the BM (big beers) this appears to be one for the WW (sediment management with fresh wort from my BM)

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[pk.sax]

Happy to be corrected, didn't quote you per de because it was a paraphrased memory of your comment.

Look, on the + side your ww wars inspired us to trial out pressure ferments. Still think it's a bit of an oversold fermenter, suits some. I'm not getting into a fight about that, I'm happy with my beers too.

 

[Goose]

I see no reason why Mr Wobbly cannot make a first class beer ...... not because he is using a WW but because he is preparing his wort correctly from grain.

To me, wort preparation is most of the job and where the essence of the beer is made. I am not discounting the role of yeast and temperature control in the fermentation process, but to me the WW unit is a fancy conical fermenter cum dispenser that uses retained CO2 from the ferment to carbonate the brew. The alleged benefits of pressure fermentation, I cannot comment on and I would need a side by side taste and visual comparison to judge.

 

[StalkingWilbur]

To be fair, it doesn't matter how fantastic your wort is, if you do a shit job of fermentation it's going to be a shit beer. So I would argue that, if you had to chose, that fermentation is more important.

 

[pk.sax]

You can't turn a turd into a chocolate cake. But you certainly can turn a chocolate cake into a turd.

 

[indica86]

To be fair, it doesn't matter how fantastic your wort is, if you do a shit job of fermentation it's going to be a shit beer. So I would argue that, if you had to chose, that fermentation is more important.

Nope, can't Polish a Turd.
ORRRRR shine a shit.

It doesn't matter how flash your FV is, you can't pretend a shit wort is good.

 

[Goose]

To be fair, it doesn't matter how fantastic your wort is, if you do a shit job of fermentation it's going to be a shit beer. So I would argue that, if you had to chose, that fermentation is more important.

I don't disagree, but putting in context.... the point is how much control do you really have over your fermentation vs wort preparation and how any extra tweaks and benefits does the WW provide in that process ?

 

[TSMill]

but to me the WW unit is a fancy conical fermenter cum dispenser

OK, now I don't want to drink ANYTHING that comes out of a WW!

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Got to give Wobbly points for trying. Its a tough gig. Made even tougher by posting responses from the designer that we are all basically shit brewers, trolls and no idea what where doing.

I hope Ian is paying you well Wobbly. But the hole has been well and trully dug.....and deep.

 

[Goose]

OK, now I don't want to drink ANYTHING that comes out of a WW!

LOL I knew that was coming ...

 

[booargy]

I looked into buying one of these and there were some things that put me off. Main thing is they are to small. VPRV is manual the temp controller is worth about $20 and there is no timer. Set the pressure at about 2.5 turns is not good enough I nearly have my control system finished to do the 3 and it will even vacuum the wort from the kettle to FV add a Chinese ice bank chiller and you have more function that can give you precise result not just about right.

 

[pk.sax]

$20!!!!

I reckon you need to count in the $6980 per hour Ian Williams spent analysing the problem (per unit) and then ordered it from eBay to add to his cum machine.

 

[MaltyHops]

I see no reason why Mr Wobbly cannot make a first class beer ...... not because he is using a WW but because he is preparing his wort correctly from grain.

To me, wort preparation is most of the job and where the essence of the beer is made. I am not discounting the role of yeast and temperature control in the fermentation process, but to me the WW unit is a fancy conical fermenter cum dispenser that uses retained CO2 from the ferment to carbonate the brew. The alleged benefits of pressure fermentation, I cannot comment on and I would need a side by side taste and visual comparison to judge.

I can't believe I just saw that

 

[booargy]

OK so now it is a WWCD glad I didn't buy one. Hahaha

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I can't believe I just saw that

You can read it many ways.

Bit like helping jack off a horse

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Winning a first place in a comp doesn't automatically mean the beer is great, it just means the beer was better than the other competing ones.
If there are three beers competing in a class and one of them is shit, and the other two are really shit than the shit one gets a first place.

I'm sure at least one of my beers that got a first place was a bit meh or even worse, that's why it sometimes makes me smile when people boast on here with their placings.

If you win gold by BJCP standards, well that's a different story, but a first place really doesn't necessarily have to mean all that much.

So in summary, quite possible that Wobbly got a first place but wasn't really happy with the beer.

Not sure if I am reading this right but beers arent usually judged against each other but against style guidelines, in which case even the best beer can be crap.
Or are you saying the WW comp was beer against beer, appears subjective if this is the case?

 

[roger mellie]

I looked into buying one of these and there were some things that put me off. Main thing is they are to small. VPRV is manual the temp controller is worth about $20 and there is no timer. Set the pressure at about 2.5 turns is not good enough I nearly have my control system finished to do the 3 and it will even vacuum the wort from the kettle to FV add a Chinese ice bank chiller and you have more function that can give you precise result not just about right.

The thing is though Booargy that setting the pressure relief valve is such a small part of the whole process - insignificantly so. The fact that the pressure changes relatively slowly at first - I leave mine fully closed then open it when the pressure gets to where I want - if it is a bit above - no issue - open/bleed down - move on.

Pressure control would be possible - are you measuring the pressure and using a PID controller to control a valve? Interested to hear how you have gone about pressure control. I think you could spend a lot of money achieving a result that is perfectly suited to a manual valve.

I don't know what version of WW you looked at but the Temp Controller they are using is an Omron E5CC - I work in the automation industry and in the 48mm form factor they don't get much better than Omron - besides - the hysteresis is set at 1 degC and so thats the accuracy +/- 0.5 DegC - works perfectly.

And what would you use a timer for BTW?

Would your Vacuum system negate the need for a March pump?

RM

 

[booargy]

I have auberins pressure controller with absolute sensor. Temp and time will be controlled with the 30 step pid controller. It still doesn'thave pressure set points so eventually iI will move to arduino I just don't have knowhow yet and I want to get this system working first.
I got a vacuum pump so I could vacuum an evaporator coil on a split system to build my own glycol chiller. I have also used it to transfer cider from demijohn to keg. i heard of others using vacuum to move biodiesel around and it would probably work well for filtering. My new system will have dedicated whirlpool vessel so transfer to FV pump isnt needed. I will have my new system working very soon and will be able give more practical feedback.

 

[roger mellie]

Good to see that you have gone with a high quality controller there Booargy - not just a cheap $20 one. :blink:

I still don't get what the timer will be for?

What volume is the system you are building?

Good luck with it all.

RM

 

[booargy]

Timer is for ramp pitch a 8c ramp to 14c over 7 days drop to -2 over 5 days hold -2 for 14 days raise back to 2 for storage.I want to be able to have a set ferment program. I don't have exact figures on me.
The system is 100l and will probably cost me the same as WW in the end but coin isn't really the issue.