Why.....

[Oatlands Brewer]

just opened two longies of my latest brew.....

The first one was brilliant

The second foamed like a bastard until the bottle was empty and smelt like an armpit.. :icon_vomit:

and the there was huge yeast sed in the glasses

:blink: ........Why is it so.

 

[brocky_555]

Maybe a dirty bottle ?

 

[RdeVjun]

I'd guess bottles weren't particularly clean- the first passed muster, second was icky- it is luck of the draw and the second had a gusher infection.
Soak all your empties in sodium percarbonate solution overnight, scrub with a bottle brush, rinse with water, rinse with dilute citric acid (just enough to neutralise any perc residue), rinse with water * 2, drain. Pre- bottling sanitising as before.
I had this with my glass when I first started, it took a few batches to build up a dusty film, (look hard, you'll see it) the gusher rate was about 50%. I realised there was a problem, researched it, found out about perc's magical abilities to dissolve organic residues and haven't looked back since. Nowadays I regularly perc every empty I have on hand, a bit of farting about and it is rather tiresome, but you'll not regret it. Over time about every three or four fillings each bottle gets the treatment, give or take. You're only getting started, maybe you had a bit of dregs in a bottle, but the routine perc will be necessary sooner or later.

Obviously be careful with any remaining full ones! :icon_cheers:

Edit: As manticle points out, could be a host of reasons. My post deals with just one.

 

[manticle]

It's possible it's a bottle infection (from dirty bottles as suggested above).

It's also possible you simply tried to get too much from the fermenter and have just filled one or two of the bottles with way too much sediment.

It's also possible, depending on your priming method, that you have overprimed some of the bottles.

 

[Oatlands Brewer]

thanks guys.

I thought about the "too much dregs out of the fermenter thing" cause i did run it further than my previos brews.

But it smelt really bad and the bit i drank was flat as.

I should qualifiy this is the only one out of the whole batch, ive already had about a carton and a half of longies out of this batch.

My cleaning procedure is as follows:

-once the bottle is empty of the previous brew they get rinsed of sediment with hot water then stored until needed

-on bottling day they get a bleach/water bottle brushing and rinsed twice.

-then a 1/4 teaspoon sodium meta in the bottle and topped up with water then left for 1 1/2 hrs

-emptyed then filled and capped.

is this enough

 

[RdeVjun]

Yeah, nearly! Sounds good, but the metabisulphite actually works as a gas, not a liquid. So drain it immediately after filling, wait an hour and then rinse with either boiling or very clean water before charging with beer. Probably better to do one at a time with the meta and move it down the line.

Keep the perc up your sleeve, sooner or later you'll notice a bit of a dusty film, that's when you'll need it.

:icon_cheers:

 

[manticle]

thanks guys.

I thought about the "too much dregs out of the fermenter thing" cause i did run it further than my previos brews.

But it smelt really bad and the bit i drank was flat as.

I should qualifiy this is the only one out of the whole batch, ive already had about a carton and a half of longies out of this batch.

My cleaning procedure is as follows:

-once the bottle is empty of the previous brew they get rinsed of sediment with hot water then stored until needed

-on bottling day they get a bleach/water bottle brushing and rinsed twice.

-then a 1/4 teaspoon sodium meta in the bottle and topped up with water then left for 1 1/2 hrs

-emptyed then filled and capped.

is this enough

In my early days I filled a couple of bottles with way too much sediment. It smells and tastes horrible.

As RdeVjun suggests you need to drain the sodium met solution out for it to work properly then rinse (although with BOILED water not BOILING). Boiling water and glass can be a scary combination.


In terms of cleaning - inspect each bottle closely. It can be easy to miss a tiny amount of gunk, particularly in the neck and such a tiiny amount can lead to gushyarsebier

 

[RdeVjun]

As RdeVjun suggests you need to drain the sodium met solution out for it to work properly then rinse (although with BOILED water not BOILING). Boiling water and glass can be a scary combination.

Yes, quite right manitcle. I boil the kettle and usually wait a bit, then rinse with it as, by that point, it is just the sanitised water that's needed, not the sanitising action of the heat.

 

[Clownfish]

I really think you just filled one too many bottles. Of all the 40 brews I have now done, I have only had two bad bottles, both of which I know I pushed too far to get an extra bottle.

 

[Hatchy]

Does sodium metabysulphate actually sanitise brew equipment or does it just kill asthmatics? I've been put onto some sort of no-rinse gear by one of my mates, this guy brews WAY better beer than anything I've managed before & the no-rinse stuff doesn't make me feel sick when I sanitise bottles, fermenters, etc.

 

[Scruffy]

Sodium Metabisulphate (E223) is broken down by the liver into sulfate and pissed out - just don't eat loads of it - when mixed with water it produces Sulphur Dioxide - which sets my asthma off... which is why it's fallen from grace recently as a sanitiser (which it's pretty good at though...)
The new kid on the block is Sodium Percarbonate (hydrogen peroxide & sodium carbonate) - found in tiny amounts amongst the perfumes etc in Oxyclean and Napisan (and Woolies Home Brand variant), it's an oxydizing agent... Disolves organic matter, in a manner of speaking... use to dissolve the caked on crap in your boil kettle.. crud in the bottom of your bottles.. etc
Idophor or starsan (different products - starsan is acid based and the neat stuff will eat through the cheap metal shelving in your garage! Iodophor is, well iodine plus surfactant), use to sterilise after cleaning with the above...

 

[booyablack]

I really think you just filled one too many bottles. Of all the 40 brews I have now done, I have only had two bad bottles, both of which I know I pushed too far to get an extra bottle.

When bottling I've made it a habit to label the last two bottles filled with "L.B." on the cap. This means "last bottled" and that way if they taste like crap/have too much sediment/explode etc. I at least know the reason why.

 

[Screwtop]

Again......................


Sodium Metabisulphate = Sanitiser (kills bugs/yeast) must be rinsed after use.

Bleach = Sanitizer (kills bugs/yeast) must be rinsed after use.

Sodium Percarbonate = Cleaner (removes organic material) must be rinsed after use.

Iodophor/Phosphoric Acid/Starsan/Oxy-San etc = Sanitiser (kills bugs/yeast) must be rinsed after use.

Bulk Prime = Rack off yeast to second fermenter/bottling bucket containing priming sugar = very little yeast transfer and constant rate of carbonation across all bottle sizes.

 

[booyablack]

Sodium Percarbonate = Cleaner (removes organic material) must be rinsed after use.

Ok Screwtop, I've read enough on this forum to get the message that Sodium Percarbonate is a cleaner and not a sanitiser but why then do Coopers sell Sodium Percarbonate as a sanitiser?

 

[RdeVjun]

Ok Screwtop, I've read enough on this forum to get the message that Sodium Percarbonate is a cleaner and not a sanitiser but why then do Coopers sell Sodium Percarbonate as a sanitiser?

Yeah, good question and I've seen that too (on a supermarket shelf, never bought it)- the mind just boggles. It misrepresents Perc, mind you this is the firm that suggests fermenting their ale cans, and lager for that matter, in the high 20s...
I guess it highlights the need to independently verify information (we use AHB for exactly that), but also that manufacturers often spin a load of crap and say just about anything to hook a customer into their product suite. I'm not sure if this is deliberate misinformation or not, IMO Coopers actually have a decent range of products and are fairly well respected for the quite reasonable products, but there's a few fundamental things like that label that they really do need to tidy up and lift their game.

My 2c... :icon_cheers:

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Sodium Percarbontate ( Napi-san ) does have some sanitizing effects, but it must be used with hot water ( above 75 *c ) to be effective. It santizing effect comes from it breaking down into Peroxide and sodiun carbonate ( washing soda ) It is the Peroxide element that does the sanitizing.

A good thing to doo is fill your empty bottles with napi-san solution and leave them to soak...then rinse with hot water on the day.

Cheap and very effective

Sodium Percarbonate is actually a food grade sanitizer, you can find refference to it in the ANZFSA ( Aust New Zealand Food Standards Authority )

Hope this confuses you all... :icon_cheers:

 

[Nick JD]

It's been known to sanitize nappies.

 

[Supra-Jim]

A good thing to doo is fill your empty bottles with napi-san solution and leave them to soak...then rinse with hot water on the day.

From memory the Coopers Sanitiser recommends an extended soak (possibly 24hrs though the memory is a bit hazy)

So a quick rinse and a shake may not cut if your using sodium prec.

Cheers SJ

 

[Bribie G]

Slightly off topic but pure Sodium Percarbonate is the lazy brewer's friend for cleaning fermenters. I simply empty the fermenter into the laundry sink, rinse it a couple of times then fill it to the brim with hot water and about a tablespoon of perc and leave it overnight. In the morning every last little bit of that brown disgusting caked on yeast ring, etc has been magically eaten and the fermenter only needs a wipe with one of those yellow kitchen cloths, a couple more rinses, a good shake with some Starsan solution then I put it back in the brewhouse to await its turn for the next brew.

I reckon you could probably dispose of whole bodies - Snowtown murders anyone ??

 

[Rod]

Slightly off topic but pure Sodium Percarbonate is the lazy brewer's friend for cleaning fermenters. I simply empty the fermenter into the laundry sink, rinse it a couple of times then fill it to the brim with hot water and about a tablespoon of perc and leave it overnight. In the morning every last little bit of that brown disgusting caked on yeast ring, etc has been magically eaten and the fermenter only needs a wipe with one of those yellow kitchen cloths, a couple more rinses, a good shake with some Starsan solution then I put it back in the brewhouse to await its turn for the next brew.

I reckon you could probably dispose of whole bodies - Snowtown murders anyone ??

and sanitize the fermenter just before the next batch



not so sure with the yellow kitchen wipe , you can introduce more that you remove