White Rabbit Dark Ale Clone

[Sydneybrewer]

There's heaps of yeast in there, over 0.5 million cells per mL!

No need to leave your fermenter 'open', at home the fermentation dynamics in such a small vessel do not matter and when I've used this yeast in a 60L fermenter I have just treated it as any normal ferment.

But, do treat it like a good English ale yeast should be treated. Aerate well and give it regular rousing during fermentation.

Thanks for the tips, very much apreciated i have the starter from the 6 pack on the go atm, heres hopping she turns out and i make something half as good as the original :icon_cheers:

 

[moonshine]

But, do treat it like a good English ale yeast should be treated. Aerate well and give it regular rousing during fermentation.

+1 to that it really sticks together, very high floc. so i think i'll deffo be giving it some agitation during fermentation so as to avoid chance of stuck ferment.

 

[beerbrewer76543]

+1 to that it really sticks together, very high floc. so i think i'll deffo be giving it some agitation during fermentation so as to avoid chance of stuck ferment.

+2 Mine got stuck and ended up taking an extra week as I had to keep arousing the yeast every couple of day to get the last few points knocked off. It finally went in the bottle yesterday so in a couple of weeks I'll post back with a comparison with the bottled stuff

 

[theredone]

just did a forum search for both mountain goat dark and white rabbit, after spending a few nights at the archive in bris and sampling many many australian boutique beers ive decided i want to go for a nice dark. cant find a clone for the mountain goat dark but was very interested in the extract version of white rabbit posted by l_bomb. cant wait to hear the results but i may get impatient and put it down soon to c for myself anyways

 

[benno1973]

...as I had to keep arousing the yeast every couple of day...

That just sounds wrong... <_<

What did it taste like out of the fermenter?

 

[beerbrewer76543]

It tasted good, although I possibly used too much carafa in search of colour and the FG was a bit high at 1.014

It was rather hoppy too but that will fade out in 2-4 weeks

If I did it again I'd use less LDME and mash more malt to get a lower FG

I'll post back in a couple of weeks with a verdict :beer:

 

[theredone]

It tasted good, although I possibly used too much carafa in search of colour and the FG was a bit high at 1.014

It was rather hoppy too but that will fade out in 2-4 weeks

If I did it again I'd use less LDME and mash more malt to get a lower FG

I'll post back in a couple of weeks with a verdict :beer:

so before i go and make the same mistakes u do.... what are you looking at changeing? maybe half kg less of malt? and half kg more of grains? or maybe a little less? also are u thinking of increasing each type of spec grain of just one inparticular?

cheers mate

 

[beerbrewer76543]

Hey theredone,

I do partial mashes and for this one I did a double batch. I am limited by my 10L boil pot so I can only mash about 2kg of grain to be in the 1.040 ballpark (1.7kg for 1.040 I think...)

Anyway, if I were to do a single batch of it again I'd do the following:

2.0kg LDME
500g Sugar
1.0kg Pale Ale Malt
500g Munich II
100g Carafa III
50g Chinese Cascade 5.6%AA @60 [22 IBU]
15g Fuggles 4.0%AA @20 [3 IBU]
15g US Cascade 7.2%AA @0 [0 IBU]
26L
1000ml Starter of White Rabbit Dark Ale yeast

Mashed in 5L water at 65*C for 90 mins... Not that it would make much difference to the FG...

I'd add the Carafa at sparge too just to see what effects this has on the flavour

10L boil size

Any advise from anyone else?

Cheers :beer:

 

[theredone]

I'd add the Carafa at sparge too just to see what effects this has on the flavour


cheers mate
didnt realize u do grains seperately. i would have just put them all in together and steeped for 40 mins. mmmmm maybe this recipe not for me then

EDIT: oh and your 0min add of cascade is that flameout or dryhop?

 

[manticle]

It's only the caraf he's talking about adding in late. Adding dark roasted grains in late can [supposedly - never done it myself] give you the same or similar colour with less roastiness or harshness.

 

[mika]

The carafa's de-husked anyway, so don't think adding it late will save you any roastiness or whatever.
Adding it late you're probably going to need a lot more than if you mashed it for the whole time, advantage being I guess you can sprinkle it in till you like the colour, but then I find the boil and fermentation changes it by huge amounts anyway.
Using roast barley or some such, I can see a point in adding it late.... but if you're doing that, why didn't you just buy carafa ?

 

[Kai]

Hey theredone,

I do partial mashes and for this one I did a double batch. I am limited by my 10L boil pot so I can only mash about 2kg of grain to be in the 1.040 ballpark (1.7kg for 1.040 I think...)

Anyway, if I were to do a single batch of it again I'd do the following:

2.0kg LDME
500g Sugar
1.0kg Pale Ale Malt
500g Munich II
100g Carafa III
50g Chinese Cascade 5.6%AA @60 [22 IBU]
15g Fuggles 4.0%AA @20 [3 IBU]
15g US Cascade 7.2%AA @0 [0 IBU]
26L
1000ml Starter of White Rabbit Dark Ale yeast

Mashed in 5L water at 65*C for 90 mins... Not that it would make much difference to the FG...

I'd add the Carafa at sparge too just to see what effects this has on the flavour

10L boil size

Any advise from anyone else?

Cheers :beer:

I'd suggest some crystal malts in there too, a small but not inconsiderable part of the colour contribution is from a mix of crystals.

 

[Acasta]

I'd suggest some crystal malts in there too, a small but not inconsiderable part of the colour contribution is from a mix of crystals.

Have you tried either an AG or Partial?
How much or what Crystals?

 

[manticle]

The carafa's de-husked anyway, so don't think adding it late will save you any roastiness or whatever.
Adding it late you're probably going to need a lot more than if you mashed it for the whole time, advantage being I guess you can sprinkle it in till you like the colour, but then I find the boil and fermentation changes it by huge amounts anyway.
Using roast barley or some such, I can see a point in adding it late.... but if you're doing that, why didn't you just buy carafa ?

I agree. Just explaining why people sometimes suggest dark grains added separately and late. Carafa special, for all intents and purposes has already been manufactured to avoid this.

Have you tried either an AG or Partial?
How much or what Crystals?

Kai is one of the WR brewers which is why his advice in this thread is worth taking.

 

[Acasta]

Whaaaaaaaaaat? Tell him i love him.
Can he give us secret recipes?

 

[manticle]

He's given lots of hints.
Check through the thread. You may have to do all the loving on your own though. I have responsibilities elsewhere.

 

[Acasta]

haha roger, I will look for Kai's tips like im looking for the rabbit itself!

 

[theredone]

sorry for the silly question, but.... l_bomb's extract version cannot be done with simple steeping? does it need to be a mash? also, steeping is more or less soaking cracked grains in hot water? and mashing is steeping ground grains? sparging is just washing through the grain sock hot water? this is the conclusion ive come to from wiki.

if so i think its probly possible for me to do a mash. ive got a 10l pot and a med size grain bag. but ive so far only done small amounts of grain steeping.

 

[manticle]

OT:

Mashing and steeping may have a similar basic process for the end user (ie put cracked grain in hot water) but there is a vital difference and that is what is occurring inside the grain.

temp with mashing is fairly crucial, temp with steeping is not (you can even steep cold).

Steeping is designed to extract flavour and colour from grains that have already had their unfermentable starches converted to fermentable sugar (and often then burnt off).

Mashing occurs when enzymes inside grain with unconverted starches are catalysed. Various enzymes do various things - the most important one in beer making converts the starch to sugar and only happens within a certain temperature range. Yes you can do a minimash in your pot but have a bit more of a read - the difference is worth understanding.

 

[theredone]

alright i might not try minimashes just yet.
thus for an easy extract should i:
1tin pale
1 tin dark
500g dex

steep some dark and maybe some carafa?

same hop schedule

thoughts?
EDIT: punched those numbers into ianh's spreadsheet with .2 of dark and .2 of munich 2 and no carafa that gives me an ebc of 32.2. thats about what im aiming for yeah?