What's The Smallest Viable Mash?

[BOG]

Hi,

Is there a minimum size you can have for a Mash to work correctly?

I'm interested to get some really small batches going so I can experiment on some hop / grain combinations without it costing the earth.

I'm still working on my technique and running 15Litre batches as using no chill as it fits in a FW cube nicely.
Additioanlly the cube fits in the freezer section of the beer fridge (upside down fridge freezer) so I can chill it to the correct starting temp easily.

I have had to dump may last batch (15Litres of beer down the drain) as it was crap and would like to reduce the bact size down even further to make "experimental" batches. Say 6 litres (a dozen 500ml bottles)?

What's the smallest batch size you have ever made?



BOG

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

There is a thread exactly like this going on the BN site.

I reckon the smallest possible size would be one grain of pale malt, but it seems that the crazy person who mashed in a coffee press while watching a porno flick wins...

 

[BOG]

I'm sure there is a size where the enzimes stop working and the mash fails to convert to sugar.

I'm hoping it's about 1 litre and you could then mash in a thermos !



BOG


Also, BN Site ??

 

[kook]

I'm sure there is a size where the enzimes stop working and the mash fails to convert to sugar.

I'm hoping it's about 1 litre and you could then mash in a thermos !



BOG


Also, BN Site ??

A few years back I used to mini-mash in a 2L thermos. It seemed to do the job (i.e., it converted). I just used to pour it out through a strainer after and pour the kettle over the grain to sparge.

BN = thebrewingnetwork.com

 

[RobboMC]

I'm new to mashing, so I may be wrong, but my understanding from my Palmer book is that proper mashing NEEDS a rising temperature, i.e. dough in at 40 deg C or therabouts and then start heating up to your target temp. It follows that mashing in a thermos is not really mashing. Anyone who knows better please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[glennheinzel]

On Basic Brewing Radio they talked about making enough for a six-pack. I can't remember what they mashed in, but I think they used a 5l growler/demijohn as a fermenter.

Here is the mp3 link-
www.basicbrewing.com/radio/mp3/bbr01-12-06.mp3

They also did a video-
www.basicbrewing.com/radio/mp4/bbv01-12-06.mp4

 

[bconnery]

I'm new to mashing, so I may be wrong, but my understanding from my Palmer book is that proper mashing NEEDS a rising temperature, i.e. dough in at 40 deg C or therabouts and then start heating up to your target temp. It follows that mashing in a thermos is not really mashing. Anyone who knows better please correct me if I'm wrong.

This isn't the case.
If it was true then single infusion mashes, where you simply heat up to your strike temp, a little above your target mash temp, and then dough in would not work.
Single infusion mashes are very widely used.

For certain types of beers they may not be ideal but they definitely extract the sugars...

 

[glennheinzel]

I'm new to mashing, so I may be wrong, but my understanding from my Palmer book is that proper mashing NEEDS a rising temperature, i.e. dough in at 40 deg C or therabouts and then start heating up to your target temp. It follows that mashing in a thermos is not really mashing. Anyone who knows better please correct me if I'm wrong.

Palmer says (in the link below) that a 40 deg C rest is optional, but it can improve yield.
www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter14-3.html

Single temp infusion is okay and is covered here-
www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter16-1.html

Edit: Sorted links.
Edit 2: Damn. Beaten by Mr bconnery

 

[PJO]

Hi,

Is there a minimum size you can have for a Mash to work correctly?

BOG

Short answer: No minimum size, the enzymes will work no matter what size as long as you keep your liquor to grist ratio the same as larger batches.

Long answer: Depends... I don't think its the mash that will be the problem for a 6L batch.

The problems I can see with making a small sized beer are:
- temperature control (mash temp control more difficult)
- weighing ingredients accurately (hops especially)
- having appropriately scaled gear (ie you need to have a reasonable grain bed depth to get filtering during runoff)

Having said that, I don't think you will have too many problems with a 6L batch size, as long as you have appropriately sized gear. You could easily to modify a small (drinks) esky (5-10L) to do the mashing in, and use a stock pot as a kettle.

Personally, I would rather make 50L for roughly 1.5X the time required to make 6L. Would be handy to have a small brewery for little experimental batches, which could be run at the same time as a larger batch.

Cheers,
PJO

 

[RobB]

Here's a link with pictures, courtesy of Thirsty Boy:

Coffee Plunger Mash

 

[BOG]

PJO,

Yep temp control would proberbly be the biggest issue.
I was thinking I could heat something solid up to temp and put it in the Mash tun to keep the heat at a constant level. Large block of granite or something.

I have a small esky and a small drinks container (came with the big esky currently used as the tun) that would work.
I have a digital scale that reads to 10ths of grams so hops sould be close to accurate.
I already have a 15L fermentor I use for 2 can brews with only one can.

My concern was around a specific mass required to get conversion happening. Seems I should be ok.

Rukh,

thanks for th links. very useful.


BOG

 

[BOG]

Here's a link with pictures, courtesy of Thirsty Boy:

Coffee Plunger Mash

Thanks Malty that's perfect !


BOG

 

[kevnlis]

The coffe plunger is hard to clean and bits of grain seem to get through. I use a thermos and have done a 1L mash with no probs.

 

[Cortez The Killer]

If you have the gear and the time to do it

I don't see an issue in making any volume (within reason)

The same basic principles are going to apply at any volume

Cheers

Edit: Make talk speak sound more better

 

[PJO]

Yep temp control would proberbly be the biggest issue.
I was thinking I could heat something solid up to temp and put it in the Mash tun to keep the heat at a constant level. Large block of granite or something.

I reckon you could rely on a well insulated vessel to keep temp steady over 40min, without having to heat a block of rock to the required temperature.

My concern was around a specific mass required to get conversion happening. Seems I should be ok.

I'm not sure why you would think that you need a minimum mass of malt to get conversion? :huh:
I am under the impression that you could get a single grain of malt to convert itself if you were able to mix it with an appropriate amount of water and keep it at the right temp (assuming that all grains are homogeneous).

Mashes for evaluating malts (for CofA) are only done on 50g of malt (Wes should be able to correct here if I am wrong). Which is enough grain to produce about a 10oz of beer.

Sounds like you already have the equipment, so go forth and mash! :beerbang:
Once you have developed a recipe that you like, scaling up to the 15L batch shouldn't be too much of an issue.

Cheers,
PJO

 

[kevo]

I do small partial batches like on Basic Brewing.

I get my water to temp, grains go in, sit it in the oven to mainatin the temp and go from there.

Small batches, but good for experimenting.

Kev

 

[MHB]

Crystal grain is "Mashed" in the corn, so that has to be the smallest practical mash.

I wonder if you could soak some pale malt in water at 65C ish, until it is fully hydrated (like those occasional uncracked grains you see in the grist when you are cleaning out) then give it time to convert.

You could then bake (kiln) the malt to make your own Crystal Malt; or just break the grains up and sparge the mush.

MHB

 

[mikelinz]

Brew your own mag July-August 2007 has a nice article on small scale brewing as well as how to convert recipes. pm me if you want a copy

related article http://www.byo.com/mrwizard/785.html


rgds mike

 

[Tim F]

I'm planning on quite a few small scale experiments too - my plan was to use 1ish litre containers to mash in, get the mash temp right and then put the container in a larger esky full of water at the right temp. This way you won't have any less temp loss than a larger mash!

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

I routinely make batches that end up with just six bottles of beer as the result. I do it on the stove top which, when you brew in a bag, makes for temperature control during the mash too easy as you have a direct heat source.

I am yet to compleat, but am very close to doing so, a PID controlled fixed-element kettle for my pilot plant. It's just too easy to make whatever volume you want, but the percentage losses increase as you scale down because many of your processes will remain with a fixed volume loss.

If you like brewing, it doesn't really matter how much beer comes out at the end - unless you brew something truly spectacular.