What Is The Next Step Up From K&k?

[jonocarroll]

:icon_offtopic:

So, do you know any good photographers?

Sure, but only really in SA; photography is my other main hobby [one that seems to be rather more expensive than HB - sometimes there's just no substitute for good equipment]. Thankfully SWMBO is very supportive of both, so I'm hoping that soon I'll have great beer and lots of photos of the process. :beer:

Just to satisfy everyone (with a round of chill-pils - hey, that's a great name for a beer!):

BREW
v. tr.

1. To make (ale or beer) from malt and hops by infusion, boiling, and fermentation.
2. To make (a beverage) by boiling, steeping, or mixing various ingredients: brew tea.
3. To concoct; devise: brew a plot to overthrow the government.

Surely that covers all bases, yes? The only difference is really where you're starting from, and what you've allowed someone else to do for you first.

 

[petesbrew]

I use a mortal and pestle for my acidulated malt... I have not got a grain mill so I have to do a weekly shop to my LBS.... I have a bag of acidulated malt that a kindly retailer on this site gave to me....

That 10 minutes with my mortal and pestle gives me the feeling of power... I feel that I could control the world.... :icon_cheers:

A bit off topic... A month back my daughter helped out crack some steeping grains with the mortar & pestle. "I taste?" she asked. Gave her a bit of choc, "yum". Then I did some melanoidin, she tastes some, and went back for a handful!.
Last week, when she saw me getting the grain ready for my AG Saison, I had to fight her off. "I TASTE, I TASTE!" she was screaming. She came back out of the garage chewing away, SWMBO asked her what she's got in her mouth, to which she opened it to show a mouth full of half-chewed grain.

Back on topic, It would be interesting to see comp results show which is AG, Partial, Extract and KnK.
In the Castle hill show, I was suprised to see my KnK stout score higher than my 2xAGs and a partial.... could say something about my AG's though... hehe.

 

[microbe]

~snip~ They see their own particular brand of beer, complete with diacetyl, acetaldehyde, rank fermentation problems, and a KFC of phenolics, fusels, cardboard, and cats piss on a hot tin roof as superior, as real beer should taste and no doubt, for their own individual taste may be correct but the average consumer (the ridiculed one with an apparent taste for swill) finds that the product tastes like, lets face it, homebrew.
Now, fortunately most, if not all of the contributors to this forum are not in that group. To the contary they strive to make good beer, the best beer they can and to a large extent they do.
Arguing senselessly and needlessly about the merits or otherwise of kit or extract or AG is pointless.
~snip~
Get your basic techniques correct with KandK (following the ThirstyBoy Manifesto is as good an advice as anyone could give you).
Learn that beer has faults, learn what they are, how to identify them and finally how to reduce the impact on your beer.
If you can take a fresh basic kit, a kilo of sugar and please some decent yeast (say US05) and make from that a bland, but easy to drink beer (how some describe megaswill) then you well on the way to being a champion brewer. Use these techniques and then start ramping your beer up.

K

Now that's one of the best posts to this thread I've read.

Nothing more to add.

Cheers,

microbe

 

[reviled]

I did about 20 odd K&K brews, 2 extracts, then I did one Partial and thought, stuff this, im going AG :lol:

Havnt regretted it, beers are like, a million times better than even the extract beers!!! K&K beers have now been sitting in my shed for 4months plus and I still cant stomach them <_<

 

[PostModern]

Arguing senselessly and needlessly about the merits or otherwise of kit or extract or AG is pointless.

Pointless but fun

 

[reviled]

Pointless but fun

The only thing that makes it pointless, is most AG'ers know both K&K and AG brewing sides of things, where as most K&K brewers only know this avenue, yet they still argue its just as good or better, without actually knowing...

I would say it is rare for someone to try AG and then go back to kits?

 

[PostModern]

LHBS reckons there's a local famous AG brewer who still pops in to buy the odd kit for his fishing trips. I won't name and shame him, but there is still a place for kits when wishing to make an easy dump and stir for quaffing beers.

Another analogy, I really like nice wines. Luckily I have a friend with an extensive cellar and I often help him drink the odd 20 year old red, or just a really nice young white. I generally spend $20-$30 on a bottle for a nice night out or for dinners with friends etc, and spend a fair amount of time selecting it. But I still drink the odd cleanskin when cooking simple foods or when quaffing over a BBQ and such. There is a place for all kinds of wine, and similarly, all kinds of beer and brewing.

That said, I think it's at least 2 years since I pulled out a can opener to make a beer.

 

[wyatt_girth]

The only thing that makes it pointless, is most AG'ers know both K&K and AG brewing sides of things, where as most K&K brewers only know this avenue, yet they still argue its just as good or better, without actually knowing...

I haven't been on here all that long but I am yet to see anyone argue that K&k is better than AG.

I'm a kits and bits man and probably will be for a long while mostly due to time constraints. I do, however, fill at least 3 of my 5 kegs with FWKs and am well aware of the quality difference between my own concoctions and these FWKs made from AG, which is why I prefer the FWK. After all that is what I am after - a nice beer. At the same time I am still mixing the odd can and bits because it gives me some time out, and a bit of a sense of ownership of what I am drinking and at the end of the day if I can enjoy drinking it then thats good enough for me.

I do look forward to the day when I can get started on an AG set-up but for now am quite content with what I have - IMO beer.

 

[antains]

The only thing that makes it pointless, is most AG'ers know both K&K and AG brewing sides of things, where as most K&K brewers only know this avenue, yet they still argue its just as good or better, without actually knowing...

I would say it is rare for someone to try AG and then go back to kits?

<_< Hmmm, I think what the gist has been is that us little ol' K&Kers should just be allowed to enjoy what we're doing without having it diminished as a hobby or potentially a craft.
Many K&Kers are not going to disagree with your point of view about their awareness of AG and, as with Brendo, many are going to observe some AG days. I'll grant you that AGers will know both aspects.
As to anyone saying K&K is better, I don't think that has been stated. It has been reiterated that a K&K has once beaten AGs at competition level. However, that's not being held up as indicative of a superior process. It's being held up as indicative that K&K can hold the occassional trump and it is a process.
I think why we have been defensive of K&K is, as I just wrote, because it shouldn't be diminished.
Does Jase agree?

PostModern's presumably feeling fairly targeted because of a comment that was basically harmless. Unfortunately, it sparked the flames. And those flames were to defend K&K. I don't think PostModern needs to feel targeted, because other remarks were just as incendiary and just as innocent.

To be serious, reviled, I think it's time to ease off. Many of the K&Kers who posted in this thread expressed a desire to progress beyond the kits (which is certainly the aim of the OP), myself inlcuded. Some are just constrained by various factors.

Butters' post was one of a select few that expressed a reasoning that was admirable, because it outlined that AG awareness of K&K that you've discussed, but promoted the AG brewer as inspirational and a guiding light that K&Kers can follow without fear of rebuke. :icon_cheers:


Now, look what you've done. You've made me write like an adult and I didn't get to put any bad jokes in. Can we go back to pointless and fun, now?





Edit: wyatt_girth posted as I wrote my essay.

 

[drsmurto]

I didnt think my dolmio references were out of line.

I made my spag bol from a jar for many many years (actually, i didnt make much than didnt come from a tin, jar or packet during my uni days) and made a nice enough meal, washed down by kit beers.

I jumped online searching for info on brewing as i wasnt happy with my results. I am a scientist so knew there had to be a reason why my K&K clones were nothing like the real deal. Stumbled onto this and other brewing forums and went from there. my own curiosity led me to AG.

And FWIW - there is one AG brewer i know of that has never brewed anything other than AG.

 

[PostModern]

PostModern's presumably feeling fairly targeted because of a comment that was basically harmless. Unfortunately, it sparked the flames. And those flames were to defend K&K. I don't think PostModern needs to feel targeted, because other remarks were just as incendiary and just as innocent.

I don't feel targeted, I just like stirring the pot a little I like encouraging people to come to the Dark Side. It's the K&K Jedis who can't see the power of the Dark Side, or deny it's true superiority that need correcting and cajoling/impelling them is fun. Every time the kit vs AG argument comes up, I can't help but jump in. AG makes producing good beer so easy once you're set up, I really can't see why people resist the lure.

Come to the Dark Side! Smell the mash, feel the power of the boil! It is your destiny!

 

[Jase71]

most K&K brewers only know this avenue, yet they still argue its just as good or better, without actually knowing...

I concur, No one one this thread has seriously suggested that K&K is better beer......

Dr Smurto, your analogy is spot on, and I can appreciate where you're coming from, we almost never use 'food in a jar' in this household. A curry made from scratch (even better when some of the herbs are picked from one's own garden) is unequalled by even the best off-the-shelf sauce - and I hate to say this but that is just not cooking. On that note, my Madras Curry is way better than your AG beer as a curry. :huh: The quintessential Indian Dark Ale if ever there was one

To anyone who thinks this thread is out of place, keep in mind that PoMo, a moderator, is enjoying the flow as much as many of the rest of us! Praise from Caesar!

 

[brendo]

Come to the Dark Side! Smell the mash, feel the power of the boil! It is your destiny!

hmmmmm the wort is strong in this one...

*where's a yoda smiley when you need it?*

 

[antains]

...my own curiosity led me to AG...

Don't you know curiosity killed the cat?!?!?!?
Or did it just have a little nap after lapping up too much beer?

If it wasn't for curiousity, many of us wouldn't be doing this or on this forum. :beer:

 

[PostModern]

To anyone who thinks this thread is out of place, keep in mind that PoMo, a moderator, is enjoying the flow as much as many of the rest of us! Praise from Caesar!

It might belong in the Pub now, but meh....

 

[staggalee]

:icon_offtopic:
Alright, fair point.

The human process I enjoy out of these types of discussions is learning about the people one may never actually meet by observing what baits them and what eggs them on.

Dialogue and discussion do have their natural courses to run. I don't disagree.

I just wanted to make a distinction between two thoughts I wanted to contribute to this thread, because there were two topics being addressed.

Anyway, maybe I just wanted to demonstrate I might be able to contribute more than bad jokes.

Yeah, maybe....
I think your last 2 posts demonstrates enough thanks.
To label everyone and anyone who drinks "meggaswill" as "simpletons" is the height of arrogance.

stagga.

 

[antains]

Yeah, maybe....
I think your last 2 posts demonstrates enough thanks.
To label everyone and anyone who drinks "meggaswill" as "simpletons" is the height of arrogance.

stagga.

Aww, look at that. I upset someone. So much so that you've misquoted me.
I didn't write that anyone who drinks megaswill was a simpleton. I wrote that simpletons drink megaswill.

And, yes, I am arrogant.

However, to temper my arrogance, I also concede that I don't know anywhere near as much about brewing as most others on this forum.

Nevertheless, thanks for the personal attack, stagga.

Ant.

 

[staggalee]

Pleasure.

stagga.

 

[antains]

Pleasure.

stagga.

:lol: Gold!

 

[RobboMC]

The first step is probably doing 50/50 kit and extract, with a boil of about 5 litres.

Next comes equal thirds of kit/extract/mini-mash.

When you taste the quality of beer that comes from adding one kg of grain,
well the path to the dark side opens to you.