What Is The Best Why To Sanitize? Bleech?

[MrGuzzle]

hey, i have been using sodium sulplite to sanitize all of my brewing bottles and brewing equipment, I was thinking about changing to bleech insted of using the sodium sulphlite i was just wondering what was the best bleech that i can use and the ratios of bleech to water and the method of using it, thanks guys, Mr Guzzle

 

[manticle]

Chlorine Bleach, unscented.

Supposedly there are no rinse proportions but having encountered the horrible band-aid flavours associated with chlorephenols, I make sure I rinse mine with boiling water.

I'm wondering about the possibility of using pool chlorine as it's probably much cheaper in the long run but I haven't investigated yet. At the moment I use white king.

 

[QldKev]

I used to use Bleach, but Starsan is soo much easier. No side effects of bleach, and it cost bugger all when you work out how long it lasts

QldKev

 

[pdilley]

No name unscented bleach (yes there are different concentrations between brands/prices). So a more expensive/higher concentration needs to have less mixed. I have to think if its all home brand or if I've done black and gold bleach but I buy both a large home brand white vinegar bottle and the non scented home brand bleach bottle. 10ml of each into 5 litres cold water. So if filling up a 50 litre plastic storage container with 30 litres water for a bottle soak then a 1/4 cup is 62ml and close enough. Stir water and soak bottles and gear for a few minutes, then empty bottles back in and put on bottle tree and then move on to bottling stage. I don't rinse any more but hot water rinse neutralises the bleach.

Cheers,
Brewer Pete

 

[Wolfy]

What Is The Best Why To Sanitize? Bleech?

I know the quote is from the title of the thread, but I'd suggest that Starsan is a superior way to sanitize than bleach.
It's no-rinse, no fuss and used at the recommended quantities is very cost effective.

 

[rendo]

Bleach and napisan are my favourites........bleach = unscented homebrand from woolies, napisan = unscented coles sensitive nappy wash

I should get myself some starsan, sounds like its good stuff

Obviously the above products should be carefully used at the right concentrations. This is very easy to find by doing to searching ....however I have done some for you. Have a read of this link, great overview and the rest of the site is a brewers dream...thanks John Palmer

http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/chapter2-2-1.html

Rendo

hey, i have been using sodium sulplite to sanitize all of my brewing bottles and brewing equipment, I was thinking about changing to bleech insted of using the sodium sulphlite i was just wondering what was the best bleech that i can use and the ratios of bleech to water and the method of using it, thanks guys, Mr Guzzle

 

[moovet]

I bnought some unscented bleach the other day but all the ones I saw also had sodium hydroxide. Can you get bleach without it?

 

[rendo]

do u mean Sodium Hydroxide or Sodium hypochlorite? Basically Sodium hypochlorite is bleach...its what you want

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleach

I bnought some unscented bleach the other day but all the ones I saw also had sodium hydroxide. Can you get bleach without it?

 

[piraterum]

Forget using bleach! It requires too much rinsing and also can degrade your equipment.

Try a no-rinse sanitiser such as Starsan Sanitiser or Iodophor (iodine based sanitiser) this is what commercial breweries use. Works like a treat and cost effective :super:

 

[Hatchy]

I was at a mates place tonight & his sister who works in a lab was there. She was suggesting that using a couple of different sanitisers is a good idea in case you end up with some bugs that are resistant to 1 active ingredient. I remember seeing a post somewhere on here where someone suggested the same thing but I reckon it'd take me a month to find that post. I use starsan & haven't had a problem with it. Does anyone know what the active ingredient is in starsan & if there are other no rinse sanitisers available with different active ingredients? She was suggesting I retire my bottles after 12 months. I think the look on my face when she suggested that may have surprised her.

 

[Wolfy]

Does anyone know what the active ingredient is in starsan & if there are other no rinse sanitisers available with different active ingredients? She was suggesting I retire my bottles after 12 months. I think the look on my face when she suggested that may have surprised her.

STAR SAN is a blend of phosphoric acid and dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid: http://www.fivestarchemicals.com/tech/starsan.pdf
Other options for sanitising can be found here; http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...;showarticle=18

I've also heard that it's not a bad idea to use a different sanitation technique every now-and then, and/or use a cleaner (different to your sanitiser) that also has sanitation properties.
So you could cover your bases and wash with sodium percarbonate, rinse with bleach/vinegar (then water), and sanatize with Star San or Idophor just prior to use.

 

[Screwtop]

Forget using bleach! It requires too much rinsing and also can degrade your equipment.

Try a no-rinse sanitiser such as Starsan Sanitiser or Iodophor (iodine based sanitiser) this is what commercial breweries use. Works like a treat and cost effective :super:

Commercial Breweries also use STEAM and HEAT to KILL STUFF!


Bleach is what I have always used, no probs. BUT! I use bleach as a D I S I N F E C T A N T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Disinfectant KILLS everything (almost)

Then rinse well

THEN use a S A N I T I S E R!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sanitiser kills most stuff

A no rinse sanitiser.....................ah.........doesn't require rinsing

So ......... brewday morning. Grab down the fermenters and assemble (taps, seals etc) add 2L of Disinfectant (made from 5L of Water with 200ml of Woolies no name bleach containing...3.8% Hypochlorite) give a good shake (and another if you think of it) and leave for an hr. Rinse out well with tap water and add 2L of NO RINSE SANITISER (5ml of Iodophor in 5L of water, or an appropriate dilution of Starsan) and shake well. Leave this in the fermenters until required later. Tip out no rinse sanitiser prior to filling.

Sanitisers work fine, however...............occasionally some nasties such as ropey bacillus invade the brewery . Bleach has it's place and should be used as part of a good cleaning regime in the brewery.

Screwy

 

[glaab]

I use starsan or hydrogen peroxide which a mate's wife gets from some hairdresser supplies for $7, makes 100L.

 

[manticle]

Commercial Breweries also use STEAM and HEAT to KILL STUFF!


Bleach is what I have always used, no probs. BUT! I use bleach as a D I S I N F E C T A N T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Disinfectant KILLS everything (almost)

Then rinse well

THEN use a S A N I T I S E R!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sanitiser kills most stuff

A no rinse sanitiser.....................ah.........doesn't require rinsing

So ......... brewday morning. Grab down the fermenters and assemble (taps, seals etc) add 2L of Disinfectant (made from 5L of Water with 200ml of Woolies no name bleach containing...3.8% Hypochlorite) give a good shake (and another if you think of it) and leave for an hr. Rinse out well with tap water and add 2L of NO RINSE SANITISER (5ml of Iodophor in 5L of water, or an appropriate dilution of Starsan) and shake well. Leave this in the fermenters until required later. Tip out no rinse sanitiser prior to filling.

Sanitisers work fine, however...............occasionally some nasties such as ropey bacillus invade the brewery . Bleach has it's place and should be used as part of a good cleaning regime in the brewery.

Screwy

The above is similar to what I do. Bleach rinse, followed by cold water rinse (very little water used in either) followed by full boiling water rinse (drained into another vessel, retained until cool then used to water vege garden). If I have it on hand I may then use sodium met to drive away any residual chlorine, then rinse again, then use starsan.

Overkill in many eyes but summer was not kind in the manticle brewery.

I don't use chlorine or boiling water in the bottles though - just sodium percarb and hot water, several rinses, then starsan.

I don't use bleach anywhere near stainless steel either (eg keggle) or my esky mash tun.

 

[komodo]

Man reading this and the two links I think I really need to up my sanitising regime!
I just clean with napisan (no name unsented stuff) rinse well then sodium metabisulfite to sanitise.
Reading this thread it seems I'm lucky to never have had a serious infection problem!

 

[mje1980]

I use iodophor, bloody easy and cheap as. A big help also, is using sodium metabisulphate as a dry sterilant. Basically once i've rinsed my fermentor out, i throw in a 1/2 teaspoon of that in there dry. If you've ever has a whiff of that stuff, you'll know not much can live in that environment!. When its time to use my fermentor, just rinse out with boiling water, then sanitise with iodophor. Works a treat, my fermentor is years old and i have no drama with infection, and even after leaving my fermentor for weeks, it still has a strong sod met smell.

Cheers

P.S there must be hundreds of ways of sanitising, so pick one that sounds good to you and try it. If it works, repeat haha

 

[roller997]

Bleach pits stainless steel, so if you use anything stainless that needs to be sanitized then do not use bleach as it will pit the stainless. Obviously the greater concentration of bleach, the more damage to the metal and since my laundry tubs still look quite nice and shiney it may not be that significant.
Bleach has to be rinsed really well or it will result in some interesting flavor profiles which is one of the reasons I have avoided using it for anything but bottles that have some "stubborn" critters in it. I use it at high concentrations, let it sit for a day and then rinse with plenty of hot water before using Brewshield before bottling.

Starsan and other no rinse sanitizers are very good options and I use Brewshield from G&G - I might give Starsan a go since it is getting very positive feedback.

Some folks who don't have Asthma issues also use Sodium Metabisulphate as it doesn't need to be rinsed if you let it dry out and since it depletes oxygen, using it to rinse bottles & kegs has the added advantage of even less oxygen being left in the bottle / keg.
During a recent brewing course, it was suggested to add a very small propotion of Sodium Metabisulphate to a force carbonated keg. The aim was to reduce any oxygen as there was no further fermentation where the yeast could consume any remaining oxygen.

Cheers

Roller

 

[manticle]

While I do sometimes use sod met, I will always rinse. I'm not a fan of the effect or perception of added sulphites in wine, cider or my own beer.

 

[beerbrewer76543]

I use 10ml of unscented bleach and 10ml of white vinegar per 5L water

No rinse, no infections and no bad tastes

The most critical time for hygiene is before the yeast takes hold so rinsing with unboiled tap water when making a starter isn't a good idea IMHO

 

[Wolfy]

...
Bleach has to be rinsed really well or it will result in some interesting flavor profiles which is one of the reasons I have avoided using it for anything but bottles that have some "stubborn" critters in it. I use it at high concentrations, let it sit for a day and then rinse with plenty of hot water before using Brewshield before bottling.
...
During a recent brewing course, it was suggested to add a very small propotion of Sodium Metabisulphate to a force carbonated keg. The aim was to reduce any oxygen as there was no further fermentation where the yeast could consume any remaining oxygen.

There are other threads around here with some maths showing that - when used at correct concentrations - any remaining bleach should be about 10x to 100x below the flavour threshold, but I guess if you use it at high concentrations like you do that's a different matter.

It was my understanding that once yeast get into the fermentation phase (which usually about 24-72 hours after pitching) the reactions are anaerobic (without oxygen) so while Sodium Met will create an environment where yeast won't live (hence killing them), I thought it did that via SO2 rather than depriving them of oxygen.