What Is A Real Brewer ?

[GMK]

Last night I was told that the Only Real Brewers were those using All Grain.

I am not wanting to open any All Grain versus Extract wars - just want people to vote/cast their opinion.

Those people making Kits & Bits, extract, partials, mead and ciders - were just "Fermentation Assisitants" - not Brewers.

Needless to say that i dont agree with this philososphy/opinion.

However,

1) Being an opened minded individual - i will bow to the majority vote/opinion.
2) Man - am i glad a become a Real Brewer on Anzac Day 2004, when i did my 1st All Grain. - Now i can hold my head up high as and call myself a "BREWER"
3) Dont know what i was doing upto them - i wonder if the National Competition knew it had some "Fermentation Assistants" wining prizes - Non BREWERS.
4) As it is a Home BREW championship - perhaps us "Fermentation Assisitants" should not enter - as we dont BREW....

Your Vote counts.....

Happy to be proved wrong and enlightened by the majority....

 

[Snow]

Perhaps someone should tell all those "fermentation assisting" microbreweries who use a large portion of extract in their beers......

 

[jayse]

Ken as ussual i think your all over the shop here.
Your question here is not at the heart of the matter we discussed last nite. Anybody can 'call' themselves a brewer, hell you can even call yourself a grand master which has me thinking maybe i could call myself a saint. That sure as hell doesnt't make me a saint.

No one would argue and say home brewers using kits can't call themsleves brewers.
But what we can argue quite rightly is brewing is the taking of malted barley and mashing, boiling, cooling and fermenting. Now if someone at coopers sitting behind a computer with a mouse in his hand makes the majority of your wort then i think only someone with a ego as big as yours would claim that your are really brewing up the wort.
I can't see this vote is gunna give your argument any merit even if everyone posts they think you are a real brewer when using kits.
I just say when i used kits i didn't for a second think i was really brewing up the wort like a 'real' brewer, but i did call myself a brewer.
But in using extract you don't even know for sure what the extract is made up of exactly let alone make the extract yourself.
Iam not having a go at any brewer of any kind, exept you of course because you seem deluded.

I pose your question another way.
Can people see that when using extract another brewer has already brewed the major part of your wort? this doesn't mean you can't call yourself a brewer, hell call yourself grand master if you like. But surely you aren't as blind as you can't see the extract has already been brewed, it has been mashed,lautered,boiled and whirlpooled.

Your question is like asking people do you think your a real musican if all you do is sing along to a karoke machine.

Please note everyone (except ken) iam not having a go i think you all make great beer how ever you do it. But i know the rest of you aren't deluded like GMK here to think for a second that brewing from extract is brewing for real from scratch, no ones stopping you from calling yourself a real brewer, just you can't be so blind as to see you are not actually brewing the the whole wort for 'real'.

Thanx for starting this GMK.
Are you a chef if your making two minute noodles?t.v diners?

Holly hell, i think i'll shut up! and wait for the GMK admiration society to try cut me down at the knees. <_<

Jayse <_<

 

[Batz]

:chug: :chug: Holy Moly :chug: :chug:
This old one again
Anyone who brews HB be it K&K too AG , in my opinion is a brewer
Cheers too us all !
Drink up and be merry :chug:

Batz

 

[Gough]

Amen Batz

To paraphrase Marx and Engels: 'Brewers of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your livers'

Shawn.

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

I voted yes

C&B
TDA

 

[chiller]

GMK: It seems you have chosen to totally miss the point of the converstation on chat last night.

No one said k&k or kits and bits etc do not make beer ... they do, however they don't brew the main part of the beer themselves. That is done by a brewer somewhere else.

They are not brewers themselves and until they make the wort themselves by mashing the grain they only make beer from someone elses efforts.

I'm not judging the final product, simply stating one person arrives at it after the full journey whereas the other has hitched a ride.

How anyone makes beer is up to them ...... but just saying you are a brewer doesn't make it so.

I don't care how someone makes his/her beer but I do care that we represent a centuries old craft correctly and don't claim credit for the work of others.

I don't malt the grain .......... I'm not a maltster, a dedicated craft in its own right.

I mash the grain and formulate the extract from those grains to form my wort to make my beer. By definition that makes me a brewer. I don't claim to be overly good at it but I do claim rightly to be a brewer.

Make your beer in whatever manner you wish but don't claim participation in the ancient craft of brewing on the back of someone else's efforts.

As an all grain brewer I have a far greater chance of making a crap beer due to all the complexities involved in crush, mash, mash temperature, steps involved for protien, beta and alpha amylase,water chemistry, temperature, combination of grains, type of sparge, pH of water, ph of grain bed, ph of sparge runoff,

To reach the above I may have researched the interaction of various grain with oneanother and their affect on wort ph. I may have discussed with other brewers their experience.

and that is before I add hops to my wort.


Brewing is more than giving yourself a title.

Steve.

 

[AndrewQLD]

I must say I tend to agree with Jayse, so I vote yes??
perhaps All grainers should be called Brewers, and K&K'ers could be called Fermenters :lol: . But I really don't think it makes any difference, it is all just semantics.

 

[nonicman]

it is all just semantics

Wouldn't a "real" brewer be someone who makes a living brewing? Just because I can make a green curry or a chocolate cake from scratch in my own kitchen doesn't make me a "real" Chef.

Or another take, a "real" brewer produces Real Ale.

Jayse is possibly correct, but just because I brew AG at home doesn't make me a Brewer, thats a bit of an insult to professionals who do it day in and day out. I voted no.

 

[Jeff]

This is going to be one of those interesting threads

Just to have a little input , and stir the pot a bit

Wold you perfer a nice homemade curry ( sorry one of my favourites )
Or a nice can of "Tom Piper" curry? <_<

Will sit back and watch now


Oh I voted yes

 

[AndrewQLD]

Wouldn't a "real" brewer be someone who makes a living brewing? Just because I can make a green curry or a chocolate cake from scratch in my own kitchen doesn't make me a "real" Chef.

Or another take, a "real" brewer produces Real Ale.

I think someone who brews for a living is usually refered to as a Master Brewer or a Craft Brewer.

And yes I brew my beer from grains and consider myself a brewer, I do not just ferment someones wort.

 

[johnno]

What about if you use Malt Extract only?

 

[pint of lager]

There was an excellent thread about kits vs all grain a few months ago.

Used to make all my beer using kits, and I thought I was a brewer. Now all my beers are all grain, and I understand I was Grand Can Opener Master of the order of fermentation assistant first class.

Brew the best beer you can with the best ingredients available with the best equipment you can muster with the best techniques you have learned. Keep good records. Keep reading and learning and experimenting. Join a brewclub, enter competitions, run competitions, visit brewers, scour the internet for information and buy good brew books.

Ken, I wonder how winemakers feel about your question?

 

[nonicman]

I think someone who brews for a living is usually refered to as a Master Brewer or a Craft Brewer.

Not at Stone (Arrogant ******* Ale etc...)

Stone's staff page

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

I think someone who brews for a living is usually refered to as a Master Brewer or a Craft Brewer.

Not at Stone (Arrogant ******* Ale etc...)

Stone's staff page

OMG

There is an opening there for you GMK. They don't have anyone with the title:

HEAD OAK CHIP CONTRIBUTOR :lol:

C&B
TDA

 

[SteveSA]

A yes vote here.

A brewer controls everything that goes into his/her wort and understands the brewing principles behind his/her decisions.

No CAN OpEnerS allowed

Pantry items optional in some "households" (within reason of course)

Note: yeast makes beer.

Caps & bottling
Steve

 

[Snow]

Ok - I'll have a crack at this.

I am a partial masher and I call myself a "real brewer" (and I vote! ). I read professional brewing texts, I research styles, I devise grain bills, mash temps, times, I mash, lauter, whirlpool, I've done double decoction mashes and have taught myself enough water chemistry to approximate correct pH and mineral composition to match the style of beer I am making. However, because I am limited in time and equipment, I have to add extract made by another "real brewer" and I don't really know 100% what that extract is made up of. I consider the extract I am adding is an adjunct, in that it is an extraneous additive to the wort I have made, to bring up my OG and adjust the flavour profile of my beer. This is exactly the same as adding Belgian candy sugar, sucrose or whatever many commercial brewers add around the world to produce their beers. A Belgian "real brewer" doesn't make the candy sugar he/she uses - does that mean he/she is cheating and riding off the back of someone else's work? Maybe it does, but that doesn't make them any less of a "real brewer". That said, i don't think I am disrespecting a centuries-old craft by saying I'm a "real brewer", just because I use adjuncts in my beer, one of which happens to be a portion of malt extract.

So...I voted no

Cheers - Snow

 

[BrentonSpear]

Either way the outcome is the same....beer and lots of it

 

[Boots]

I voted "yes" (and I'm not an all grain brewer .. yet)...

I would have thought that to be a "real" brewer, you would have to:

a - Know exactly what your ingredients are, and more importantly, know WHY they are there

b - Have "a degree" of control over every aspect of the beer (within reason of course), including fermentation and presentation, and more importantly, know what the ramifications are of any adjustment / loss of control to any of your processes.

Sure .. I call myself a home BREWER / hobby BREWER, but the person warming up the airplane meals is probably titled a chef.......

 

[user 384]

I voted yes and I feel no need to explain why, it's self obvious that only AGers are real brewers.

This is why on weekends me and my other AG mates like to go down to the LHBS, point at the fermentation assistants and laugh at their feeble efforts!

Come on Ken, why bother with this poll? You touched on the real issue but haven't followed through. The poll should read:

1) Should only AGers be allowed to enter home brew competitions?

2) Should all previous winners who did not enter an AG beer be stripped of their medals and exposed as the dirty cheats they are?

3) Should AGers go down to their LHBS, point at the fermentation assistants and laugh at their feeble efforts?

Cheers
MAH
REAL BREWER and PROUD!