What Is A Real Brewer ?

[Gough]

I am now an 'all - grain' brewer. Have been since July. I have averaged a brew a fortnight since then, all of them AG and am starting to feel like I am really controlling the process well and brewing some good beers. I'm now cracking my own grain, building my own recipes, I built my gear myself (despite my 'tool challenged' status ) and would like to think I fit this new very narrow definition of being a 'real brewer' that you blokes are presenting.

However I took quite a few years to get to this stage and certainly considered myself a 'real brewer' for most of the way. I would argue that extract 'n grain and part mash brewing should definitely be classed as 'real brewing'. I was building my own recipes from scratch, experimenting with grains and hops etc. and controlling the process. I was also brewing some good beers, even if they were 'tainted' with the evil extract.

Why do we feel the need to differentiate? Is it to make us who are now brewing AG somehow feel superior? I haven't seen too many kit 'n kilo brewers coming on here dumping on the rest of us for wasting so much time and effort, or carrying on about how their latest supermarket brew is far superior to anything brewed from scratch so why choose to reinforce some sort of 'brewer's divide'? It just smacks of prejudice to me.

Each to their own. I'm a 'real brewer', but I like a broad church. Room for all styles and levels. Please let's not get too elitist. I've learned HEAPS from blokes like Jayse over the last 18 months or so on this site and it is because of sites like this that I am now as into this craft as I am. Let's not scare off any other newbie 'real brewers' in training eh?

Shawn.

 

[wee stu]

OK, six All Grains into the craft and I don't think I've earned the title brewer yet.
Even if one beer was fortunate enough to win best in class in a nationally open comp. Winning a prize doesn't in itself make you "prize winning brewer". And no, I am not giving back the trophy

I'm very much a newbie, learning the craft and making more mistakes along the way than successes - an apprentice brewer maybe. But still a long way to go before I am satisfied that I have truly earned my stripes.

Having said that, I acknowledge what Snow has to say (and elements of what I think GMK is trying to say too), and would concede that a competent, experienced and well informed partial masher can be a better, and even more complete "brewer" than an inexperienced, poorly researched and slapdash all grainer.

FWIW, last year when I discovered Masterbrews, AHB, racking, cold conditioning, dry hopping, liquid yeasts, partial mashing etc I had no doubt. I had arrived, I was a BREWER.

Perspectives change, it all depends where you are standing.

Once I remember what the question was, I'll go back and vote

 

[GOLIATH]

Obviously I should visit more often! Presented with a firestorm on the PC is not my idea of fun.

There are some excellent comments and many views expressed are clearly the result of considered reflection. The reverse is also well represented.

GMK.... The home/craft/real/extract/kit/whatever brewing world is awash with ignorance already. Why start another useless argument?

The term Real Brewer (meaning mash brewer, in line with this discussion) could perhaps be altered to Holistic Brewer.

I am in accord with some other threads and suggest that if I make a packet soup I am not a soup chef.

For the purpose of discussion heres anothe analogy. "Consider the Truck driver" (not the lilly!). A heavy transport driver that drives proffessionally for a living will sneer at someone that only drives a car to and from work that calls themselves a "Driver". However, both are drivers of a sort.

So I can see both points of view plus a bit in the middle and it would help if others could see the middle bit as well.

Having said that I voted YES!

Regards
Dave

 

[GMK]

Might need 2 tittles that will make every one happy....

1/ Brewers and

2/ BeerMakers (Much Better than Fermentation Assistants)

then assign/choose the category that you want to/beleive you are in....

There is definately alot of passion and feeling out there on this topic....

 

[Gough]

Yeah, good point Stu. Definitely still learning here as well, and not within cooee of a trophy of any kind

Maybe we need a new category for those who really need to differentiate - the 'unreal brewer'. That would really sort things out So who is an unreal brewer then?

 

[Trough Lolly]

I'm a HOMEbrewer...And this is the Aussie HOMEBREWER website B)

Forget titles, forget whether I used all-grain malt, extract malts, resins, tree sap, the scrapings from my cat's bum :blink: - whatever, I brew beer for consumption at home with me and my mates...

Yes, kits are assembled by someone else and those of us who use them either do the bare minimum and chuck in some water, sugar and the yeast sachet or add to them with crystal malt and/or hops and/or non-kit yeast etc - regardless, they are making beer - some better than others .

All-grainers! Did you grow and malt the barley? Did you grow the hops and pelletize the cones or kiln the flowers? Did you plate the yeast cells and put them in the sachet? No. But did you make beer? Yes!

And that doesn't change regardless of whether the person drinking your kit or all grain brew is about to complement you on it, or smash you over the bollard with the bottle or glass h34r: You brewed beer at home and you are justly proud of your efforts...

For those of us who brew all grain, well done! You are keen to take advantage of and enjoy some additional depth that this fine craft/hobby has to offer. But that's all - you can still make crap beer with all grain - as you well know. It's about technique, learning and understanding the process, not just assuming that your cracked malt and adjuncts will guarantee you brewing success...

What about partial mash brewers? They still mash malt, sparge the grains, boil the wort etc etc. They also use somebody elses malt extract, or wheat extract, etc to assist them in achieving their desired goal. Are they not brewing beer? YES! Did they use some ingredients that somebody else provided? YES!...And the problem is? :blink:
And before I get flamed - I understand the previous posts - yes, it isn't a slag off aimed at those who use kits, but let's be careful when we make broad ranging comments about surrendering control when we use extracts - I agree that this is an issue that we can go some way towards alleviating with an all grain brew, but that doesn't automatically imply that all-grain is logically better. To do so, would confirm in the eyes of the doubters that all-grain brewers consider themselves to be superior, regardless of their efforts...
How many learned writers have written chapters in their books on "moving up" to all-grain brewing :angry: *cringe* :angry: .

I think we are actually all thinking the same thing. Let's not get too worried about whether this person or that person is entitled to call themselves a brewer (or even a grand master ) - we all start somewhere and work at the hobby until we either get bored and give up or reach a level of commitment and involvement that is comfortable with our lifestyle.
If that means you start at all-grain or kits, who cares? Everyone is doing what they love the most - brewing beer... :chug:

Cheers,
TL
P.S. I'll put my recipe for Cats Bum Stout on the recipe page soon
P.P.S. In case it isn't obvious, I voted no!

 

[Boots]

After seeing his post, i think Snow has summed it up best so far - which ever way you vote.

 

[Shed]

Hey Trough Lolly,

Can I have the full recipe that goes with the "cats bum scrapings"?

 

[pint of lager]

Cat's bum scrapings, would they be ok for adding to the community AHB beer?

 

[Shed]

No unless you want to produce VB!

 

[Trough Lolly]

Cat's bum scrapings, would they be ok for adding to the community AHB beer?

No probs! I'll add a saucer of milk to bring up the lactose levels
And if I'm real lucky, you may detect a faint musk aroma in the hop profile - now that's brewing! :blink: h34r:

Cheers,
TL :lol:

 

[johnno]

Cat's bum scrapings, would they be ok for adding to the community AHB beer?

No probs! I'll add a saucer of milk to bring up the lactose levels
And if I'm real lucky, you may detect a faint musk aroma in the hop profile - now that's brewing! :blink: h34r:

Cheers,
TL :lol:

Hey!!
Sop giving the megaswill makers more ideas.
Cats piss is already one of their favourite ingredients.

cheers

 

[johnno]

Looks like the No vote is winning.

 

[user 384]

Looks like the No vote is winning.

That's only because all the dirty cheaing extract brewers are so insecure abut their feeble atttempts that they're flooding the vote to skew the results.

Not only are extract brewers beer cheats but it would also appear that they're poll riggers. They're worse than the bloody Commie Pinko Labour Party who love nothing better than to stack branches.

Come on fellow AGers cast your vote for yes. Then when we win this poll we will know for sure that we're superior. We can then laugh at the fermentation assistants over the Internet as well as laughing at them in our LHBS.

This thread will surely give us all these answers and more!

The AHB forum is more knowlegable than Deep Thought!

Cheers
MAH

 

[Sean]

The dictionary within easy reach defines 'brew' as 'make [beer] by infusion, boiling and fermentation.' So I guess if you only do one of those then you aren't really a brewer (or brewster if you happen to be female).

[Aside: those who make cider are cider-makers, not brewers]

And yes, in my opinion the same applies to brew-pubs who make entirely from extract.

 

[Temple of Seth]

Hmmm.

Well. This is quite ridiculous.

I do understand that brewing AG requires a certain large amount of alone-time during which your dedication to your art will keep you busy and apart from the normal social interactions which would otherwise produce the ego-boost which extract brewers enjoy, but seriously people... get some other prop for your over-ticketed selves. <_<

I have met at most one HOMEBREWER who started out as an AG brewer. This implies that new brewers are, in general, extract brewers or kit brewers. Did all you AG people refuse to call yourselves brewers before you scraped up the considerable amount of cash and time that it took to take the extra step?

Are we trying to create an exclusive country club here? I thought HOMEBREWING was a missionary religion. It's quite important to be inclusive. Otherwise, how will we drum up the hordes of devotees necessary to beat the mega-brewers (in the words of Jayse, 'point and click fermenters') and capture the market in the name of local flavor? You might as well get rid of 'Teach a friend to brew day' if you're going to insist that it be nothing less than a full-on day-long all-grain lesson. Or maybe we should call it 'teach a friend to ferment day' and keep it the way it is.

You AGers have all my respect, trust me. I hope to join you someday, but right now it couldn't work on several levels. I'm coming - wait up. And ease up on the agro. B)

 

[Gough]

They're worse than the bloody Commie Pinko Labour Party who love nothing better than to stack branches.

:lol: :lol: Geez, Marx and Engels, 'Pinko Commie Bastards', this thread's got it all! :chug:

Shawn.

 

[MCWB]

I voted no.

Although I am now brewing all-grain, I really can't see how partial mashing for example isn't real brewing. You mash, boil, add hops, cool, and do everything an AG brewer does, but you substitute some extract for some base malt. Yes, someone else did the crushing/mashing/lautering/sparging and drying etc for your extract, which means you have slightly less control over your wort, but that's it. One can argue the to-s and fro-s of having complete control over your wort all day. Most importantly, it is theoretically possible (although practically impossible) to get exactly the same result using AG and partial mash methods.

I hope none of you use DME for yeast starters, you'd be contaminating your all-grain beer...

:chug:

 

[nonicman]

MAH's posts are spot on. Bloody pinko cheating extract brewers slipped some DME into my starter.
:lol:

seems a childish thread but some of the posts have been very entertaining.

 

[flanbos]

Im so sick and tied of all this kit brewer bashing!!!

we all make BEER!! and what do u call someone who makes beer.....a brewer. there is so much snobery from alot of you ag guys and i mean seriously grow up and get over urselves. does it make u feel good to be putting down us guys who for whatever reason make kits and bits or partials. we all have to start somewhere!

ANd dont even get me started on you Mah and your narrow mined comments. if a non full grain brewer can make a winning beer or even a beer that others can enjoy how is he less of a brewer than an ag bloke.

Unless you actually grow every thing yourself and are involed in every single aspect of ever ingredient of every process, you still are riding on someones back.

i really think this is all a bit stoopid when it comes down to it, we are all home brewers and are makeing much better beer than we would otherwise buy!



i think i need a lie down after all that ranting and raving!!! :chug: