What Are Your Costs (or Savings) In Home Brewing?

[bconnery]

Now factor in the hours you spend brewing and your hourly rate at work.

Yup - it's not cheap at all. If you make $50 an hour at work, and work long hours, homebrewing is foolish - buying cases of Chimay is cheaper.

Unless you love doing it. Which we all do. So close your response textbox and all the whinging at me you were about to do.

I've never understood why people always want to apply this argument. Why should we factor in an hourly rate? If you were spending time homebrewing when you should be working perhaps, but this is a hobby.
The cost of ingredients is a valid cost because you spend that money, but unless homebrewing is something you do when you could, or rather would, be earning money, then factoring in an hourly cost isn't valid.

It would be like saying I shouldn't bother buying groceries and cooking because once you factor in the hourly rate it is much cheaper to simply buy takeaway food all the time. (Note: of course people may do this, and that's their choice)

 

[komodo]

Man if i factored in my time R&D especially I'd be long bankrupt!

 

[DanRayner]

you forgot there's no preservatives in home brew....and the excerise we do,when we are brewing a batch,and home brewers are environmentally friendly(recycling)..its bit off topic

Common misconception about mega-swill. Virtually no commercial beers have preservatives (unless you're talking about hops and alcohol) - they just don't need any, it's boiled, preservative hops are added and the vessels they are packaged in are (or should be) ultra sterile.

Even beers like Toohey's New proudly proclaim they have no added preservatives (wow, gee Toohey's; you want a cookie for that?!? You ain't supposed to put preservatives in beer, fools! (that's me talking in blaxploitation to Toohey's, not to DU99 ))

I've never understood why people always want to apply this argument. Why should we factor in an hourly rate? If you were spending time homebrewing when you should be working perhaps, but this is a hobby.
The cost of ingredients is a valid cost because you spend that money, but unless homebrewing is something you do when you could, or rather would, be earning money, then factoring in an hourly cost isn't valid.

It would be like saying I shouldn't bother buying groceries and cooking because once you factor in the hourly rate it is much cheaper to simply buy takeaway food all the time. (Note: of course people may do this, and that's their choice)

+1

I brew as a past-time (ie: a way to pass the time) and I get low-cost, high quality beer as a result. As that mad Charlie Sheen says: #winning

My last batch of 100% Nelson Sauvin IPA cost around $50 for 42L - or equivalent to 5.3 cases of 330mL craft beer - which equates to about $345 worth of LCPA or similar (at $65/case) and to be honest, I just kegged and tasted my beer last night and I think I prefer it even if it was the same price. 6.1%, orangey-hoppy and malty sweet (used 250g of Nelson Sauvin in 42L; cor!!)

 

[cdbrown]

Brew when your on annual leave, public holidays or sick leave, then you'll be paid to brew!

In terms of ingredients only I've bought around 2.8k of stuff, used 1.8k and am around $800 in front over the past 2 years (still have 1k worth of ingredients to use so will be further in front in terms of savings). When factoring in equipment then adding 11 kegs, 3x25L fermenters, 4x60L fermenters (most used to hold bulk grain), plastic cubes, keezer, temp controllers, timber for a bar, pots, steel for brew rig, PID controllers etc etc then I'm well behind and probably won't "break even" for another year or so. I'm not really worried about the savings, I know it's cheaper per batch for ingredients - I like brewing and enjoy drinking the end product. Just wish I could brew more often and make use of the cubes.

 

[Nick JD]

I've never understood why people always want to apply this argument. Why should we factor in an hourly rate?

If you work 75 hours a week for $50p/h, have a family and the weekend off - no matter how much you love your brewing hobby it simply does not make sense to brew because you are time poor and cash rich.

Sure, there's no need to factor in an hourly rate when you have time to brew that doesn't subtract from other commitments. Not everyone has this luxury; some people value their family more than their hobbies.

A friend of mine rolls his eyes when he hears how long it takes to make beer and swigs his can of XXXX Gold. He's rich and busy; I've got all day.

I know K&K brewers who will never move to AG because they don't see that spending hours crafting award-winning beers is more fun than going surfing, or playing sport with their kids. They brew K&K because it saves money, but also doesn't take hours of their day.

If I won lotto, I'd still brew. If I had to work 75 hours a week, I would go to Dan's and go hard. brewing takes time and time (for some people) is money. Hopefully this helps in your understanding about why people want to apply this argument.

 

[waggastew]

Ignoring the cost of the Coopers kit I got given free and the slight increase in electricity on my fridge brewing HB is super cheap. I brew K&bits, some spec grain, good yeast etc

Most expensive brew worked out to be about $40 a standard case (24 x 375mL). That was for a 13L Belgian Dubbel batch using a liquid yeast and imported Candi sugar.

Most hover around the $15 mark, including Dr Smurto's LCPA clone, JSGA clones, toucans etc.

In the end I don't save much money as the bit that I save I spend on 'Research' buying commercial beers to try. But its all good!

 

[bconnery]

If you work 75 hours a week for $50p/h, have a family and the weekend off - no matter how much you love your brewing hobby it simply does not make sense to brew because you are time poor and cash rich.

Sure, there's no need to factor in an hourly rate when you have time to brew that doesn't subtract from other commitments. Not everyone has this luxury; some people value their family more than their hobbies.

A friend of mine rolls his eyes when he hears how long it takes to make beer and swigs his can of XXXX Gold. He's rich and busy; I've got all day.

I know K&K brewers who will never move to AG because they don't see that spending hours crafting award-winning beers is more fun than going surfing, or playing sport with their kids. They brew K&K because it saves money, but also doesn't take hours of their day.

If I won lotto, I'd still brew. If I had to work 75 hours a week, I would go to Dan's and go hard. brewing takes time and time (for some people) is money. Hopefully this helps in your understanding about why people want to apply this argument.

None of your argument helps me to understand why you would want to apply this argument, in fact most of it I see as contradictory.
You say that to some people time is money, but then suggest they shouldn't or don't brew because they need to spend time with their families, or surfing, none of which are activities that generate income (obviously surfing can...).


Making the decision not to brew because you are time poor, and want to spend that with your family, or surfing or whatever, isn't an economic argument, its a social and values based one, and a perfectly valid one.
Again, unless the time spent brewing is detracting from time you could actually be earning money I don't think there's a valid reason to factor this in.

Any time spent brewing subtracts from other commitments, but it isn't automatic that means money. Personally I don't know anyone who has time to brew that doesn't subtract from other commitments, doubly so for anyone with a family.

If you are spending time with your family you aren't working, but that doesn't mean it isn't valuable nor valid.
I work full time and have a wife and two small children. I spend after work (not much before as I generally leave quite early) and weekends with my family and occasionally make the decision to spend some time brewing. During this process I spend time with my family and also work on other commitments, household jobs etc.

I'm glad you've got all day, many of us don't, but still make the decision to brew.

The decision to indulge in any hobby involves a lot of factors, time being one, but I don't think it is the case that that time has to have a dollar value attached to it, a 'social' or whatever you want to call it yes.

 

[Strange Brew]

Home Brewing saves tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. If I wasn't home brewing I'd probably be doing one of the following in my spare time:

Ballroom dancing: up to $150 an hour in lessons, about $1500 for entry level competition.
Comic book collecting: over $100000 for the origional superman comic.
Photography: $30000 in equipment and $1000 for a trip to take photos.
Tornado Chasing: Last minute flights to america $10000 each
Facebook: $1 to buy a friend a digital birthday gift x 1000000 people you've never seen = $1000000 a year.
Faberge Egg collecting: Start from $2 million a pop
Golf: Latest driver to get you that 10mm further = $2000 a pop
Faberge Egg Golf: Starts from $2 million a hole

 

[hsb]

LOL Strange Brew. +1 to the Faberge Eggs, it was that or homebrewing for me. I chose the Eggs but cracked at my first auction so ended up back in homebrewing.

I don't count my savings or costs, I just hope the wifee never adds it all up and am grateful for every new day that comes. I don't brew to save, I save to brew.

 

[Gormand]

Brewing has caused me to drink more, but Im loving it. Right now I have no doubt I am way down due to startup costs... which really dont seem to stop.
Ok so all I need is the tank, capper, a set of bottles(I was impatient and lazy), giant spoon, hydrometer etc.
Damn this temp control is hard, I now need a fridge.
I want more control over my brews, what is this all grain thing, hmm ok I need voile, 50l pot, burner and cubes.
This next bit is for later but I know its coming
I need my own fridge for hop and yeast storage.
I kinda want to keg, because beer on tap is just way cooler, so there is another fridge or freezer, kegs, taps, gas, lines etc.

Im sure the startup costs stop at some point, but until I hit that point its a moderatly expensive hobby.

 

[ekul]

I'm def out in front. My system is pretty simple though. Just an 80L biab rig, 4 cubes and 3 fermenters.
Buying a mill probably saved me the most money out of everything. I set most of my rig up whilst i was a uni student on the dole. And when i was on the dole i couldn't afford beer very often. So it must be cheaper. PLus its fun.

 

[DanRayner]

Faberge Egg collecting: Start from $2 million a pop
Golf: Latest driver to get you that 10mm further = $2000 a pop
Faberge Egg Golf: Starts from $2 million a hole

Funniest thing I've seen all day!

 

[Silo Ted]

If homebrewing is better than *** then either you're doing one of them wrong or I am...

You need to understand when a big, creamy head is appropriate to the style you've developed.

 

[Nick JD]

Any time spent brewing subtracts from other commitments, but it isn't automatic that means money.

No, not automatic. But the fact that the argument exists indicates others differ from you in their opinion on the subject.

Most come to homebrewing to save money. If there was a push button machine that made award-winning beer and put it into bottles then everyone would brew - but to some people their spare time is too precious (add any monetary synonym here) to be spent (again, any monetary synonym here) mashing grain when they have enough cash to blow on beer and sit in the pool drinking it.

To those people, they wouldn't brew if you paid them $50 an hour. That's the monetary value these people place on brewing. If they became time rich and cash poor they'd start brewing again.

And that's why it actually is possible to attach a time figure to brewing.

 

[bum]

No, not automatic. But the fact that the argument exists indicates others differ from you in their opinion on the subject.

His position isn't that the argument doesn't exist - just that it is nonsense.

And he is quite correct.

Equally silly is your suggestion that it "does not make sense" for a cash wealthy/time poor person to brew - how about, uh, brewing a beer you cannot buy anywhere that is tailored perfectly to your own tastes? Seems like a valid reason that one can't buy their way out of. I mean, obviously, if all you're brewing is light-arsed smash ******** beers then yeah, no reason to brew (regardless of your situation) but that is far from everyone. One would hope, anyway.

 

[Acasta]

Nick, your argument is like comparing mowing the lawns to hiring a gardener to do it for you. The reason people do things themselves is to save money. I guess if you don't have free time however, it may be seen as money potentially earned, but if you look at it that way you should be working or sleeping.

 

[warra48]

No one can beat my way of brewing to a budget.

I set all my prices in BeerSmith to $0.00.

Every batch I brew costs me nothing, nil, zip, nada, $0.

And, I love the beer I brew. Ooohhhh, just downed a longneck of DrSmurto's Golden Ale, brewed with 100% Cascade hops. Beautiful, just gotta love that big citrus hop nose and flavour, but balanced by the malt and body, nothing over the top.

I don't brew to save money. I do it as a retirement hobby. I also play golf, and it costs me a darn lot more over the course of a year than brewing does, although my consumption only runs to 1 longneck a day.

 

[hsb]

Both pursuits offer equal amounts of frustration/joy, but it's easier to hit targets than greens (for me at least.) Free beer! at warra's!

 

[Superoo]

54% ROI.. nice one

Or is that 54% ROV Matt

Sorry everyone - private joke (and not a very good one at that).

 

[bconnery]

No, not automatic. But the fact that the argument exists indicates others differ from you in their opinion on the subject.

Most come to homebrewing to save money. If there was a push button machine that made award-winning beer and put it into bottles then everyone would brew - but to some people their spare time is too precious (add any monetary synonym here) to be spent (again, any monetary synonym here) mashing grain when they have enough cash to blow on beer and sit in the pool drinking it.

To those people, they wouldn't brew if you paid them $50 an hour. That's the monetary value these people place on brewing. If they became time rich and cash poor they'd start brewing again.

And that's why it actually is possible to attach a time figure to brewing.

BUt none of those things, until you pulled a $rate out of...thin air, are a value cost. Their spare time isn't precious because they could be earning x dollars, it's precious because they don't have much of it. How you choose to spend it is a value call, not an economic one.

Your original response stated "Now factor in the hours you spend brewing and your hourly rate at work.

Yup - it's not cheap at all."
Again, I have seen nothing that provides a reason for applying what you could earn at work as a time cost in homebrewing.
If you are right that most people come to homebrewing to save money, and in many cases you are, then the money they are looking to save is to the money they would spend on beer, time doesn't come into it.