Welder

[sah]

I'm considering buying a small relatively cheap MIG welder through ebay. I'm looking for tips and things to look out for.

I've never welded and I know next to nothing about the kit. I'm confident I'll be able to pick up the skill without too much trouble.

This is prompted by a brew stand project. I've designed a two tier stand and I've bought RHS tube.

A mate has offered to do the job for me with his stick welder. However, there are lots of welds and it'll take a good while. I can imagine taking on a few projects if I buy one ... the brewstand, a frame on coasters for a bar and chest freezer, a stand for a mill and electric motor, fixing the trailer and maybe even an recumbent bike.

Are the 130A units ok? What are their limitations. Is MIG/MAG really worth the extra cost over stick (arc)? What else should I know?

Thanks in advance.

regards,
Scott

 

[tk75]

Hi Scott,

Just a word of advice...if you have never welded before I would suggest doing a short course in welding. The course would give you a good starting point for info and practice. Using a mig takes a bit of practice...maybe start with getting some scrap and practising with your mates arc if he would loan it to you for a while. And BE CAREFUL with buying something of eBay of which you know nothing about, you may not end up getting exactly what you need.
However good on ya for not shying away from takling this!

 

[domonsura]

DO IT. But get a MIG, not a stick. Stick sucks and it's not fun to use. MIG is nice and simple, and fun like a glue gun to use.

Good onya for being keen enough to consider it. If you get stuck whilst learning, email me and I'll help if I can

 

[Back Yard Brewer]

I am not an expert in the field, but I do have a mig welder. Mig welding as has been said is a lot easier for the novice to use than stick. That being said i have been considering parting with my Mig and going for an all in one Tig/stick welder.I have a passion for SS what with my brewing and boating. Yeah I can hear others saying "get some stainless wire for your mig" but its not the same to me.Recently saw some Tig/stick welders here starting at $500.Tig welding is not that easy to pick up if you have no experince with welding, I have tried using one already and it will take some time.

130 amp should be sufficient for your type of welding, mine is a 185amp and don't go anywhere near using that range.

BYB

 

[olskoolsoulja]

Hi,
The 130 amp machines are fine for light work, but the duty cycle or the time you can weld at high amps is very low. This means if your welding a rhs frame you could do a few welds and let the machine cool or it will trip out. A good thing with the sip machine and probaly othes is you can buy little disposeable bottles.Can be expensive if doing a bit of welding. Doing a course is a great idea!! failing that the best advice i can give is welding like brewing cleanleness is everything you want shiny steel and good earth. watch the weld pool(molten metal ) and not the bright light. A handy skill to have . Mig is a lot easier then stick and for the unskilled welder is easyer to use if running probaly , but getting them settings is the skill. and theres more problems with wire feed issues etc which can be hard to work out for the newbie. Tafe course is one nite a week and is well worth it.

Rich

 

[tk75]

I have to disagree that mig is easier for the novice than stick...as olskoolsoulja mentioned, with mig you have to get your wire feed set correctly and this can be a learning process in itself. As I have been around metal working the better part of my working life arc/stick is the best place to learn welding...set your amps and away you go. My father has built many a boat trailer and normal trailers with an arc and it has done the job fine. Mig is better suited for thinner material but then again arc can do the same with the right care taken.
Do a course and find out for yourself...

 

[domonsura]

I have to disagree that mig is easier for the novice than stick...as olskoolsoulja mentioned, with mig you have to get your wire feed set correctly and this can be a learning process in itself. As I have been around metal working the better part of my working life arc/stick is the best place to learn welding...set your amps and away you go. My father has built many a boat trailer and normal trailers with an arc and it has done the job fine. Mig is better suited for thinner material but then again arc can do the same with the right care taken.
Do a course and find out for yourself...

Each to their own I suppose.....but I disagree...Stick is the modern day equivalent of sticking an electrode into a powerpoint and trying to control the short.........with MIG all you need to learn to do is adjust the wire speed to the amps you're welding at. Too fast and it will splutter, too slow and it will burn up into the tip. Pretty easy really. Point and shoot. Use it woth a gas bottle, or use it with gasless wire.

With stick, you have to get used to starting the arc without it sticking, setting the right amps for the material thickness, choosing the right electrode thickness for amps and material thickness, the massive amounts of heat it generates, the massive amounts of sparks it fires everywhere, the huge amount of shit it leaves on the weld that needs to be hammered/wirebrushed off......all bearing in mind that unless you have gained considerable skill with this tool, attempting to weld anything small gauge such as light steel or sheet is an exercise in futility.....and lets not forget arc eye and welding sunburn.....leave arc welding where it belongs as far as I'm concerned...in the dark ages...it's by far and large the least fun welding tool to use and by far the messiest.

If you're after simplicity, go MIG. If you can use a glue gun, you can learn to use a MIG welder. If you have more time to spend and are a little more interested in technique and weld quality, go TIG but be prepared (in most cases) to spend more for the welding machine, more for materials and more time on the project.

I have 3 family members with their own engineering businesses - the only one who has even used stick (MAG) extensively is my father (aged 64, welder for the last 38 years, MIG welding for the last 15 of those) and he never uses stick anymore unless he has something over 5mm or larger to weld which is where stick comes into it's own...pure grunt on a large material level.

On a home/hobby level, there's just no need. A MIG can do everything a stick can do and then some, with a cleaner job and less mess/heat/cleanup/fire-risk.

I should add that my 15 year old son has just learnt the basics of MIG easily enough in a couple of days to stick a go-kart frame together, but his take on stick was that it was..in his words...'primitive'. Until 2 weeks ago he had never even seen a welder. Today he put together some stainless bits very neatly with the TIG after minimal instruction and a couple of days playing with the MIG welder. My missus can weld MIG and TIG pretty well also and had minimal practice with either (read 1 day).........but neither of them are interested in even trying stick welding. Neither of them can see the point......make your own mind up.....

 

[mika]

I agree with maltaddict. MIG is simple for long runs of weld, but you're not going to encounter that kinda welding with the projects you're talking about. Duty time likewise won't be an issue, you'd have to be a half decent welder to worry the machine, the home handyman stuffing around is going to have enough time between welds that it ain't an issue.
MIG I find is extremely easy to cold lap with, you've got to watch where the heat is going a lot more than with stick (but then I learnt on stick). MIG and TIG you're going to have to rent bottles of gas, that in itself is quite an expensive proposition, at least on thise side with BOC. A MIG does have some versatility though, and a small 150amp gas/gasless version wouldn't be a bad bet. Not sure how expensive the flux core wire is, but don't think it's that bad. You can get some cheap arc welders from places like supercheap and other auto stores at the moment. My brother was welding my gates up, 2.5mm thick material with a 2.5mm 16TC rod and he never had the machine above 80amp, so 130 or better should be good for up to 6mm plate, though then duty cycle might become an issue.

Do a TAFE course, needle the lecturer, good place to start.

 

[Batz]

Sometimes I feel my age

And g'day to all the other trade people over 50 !

Batz

 

[bill_gill85]

Most of it has been said already, but I disagree with some of the comments about stick welding (MMAW - Manual Metal Arc Welding), yes it is very old technology & is rarely seen outside of home workshops & metal workshops in schools, but it still has its place. Who is going to drag another gas bottle around on the farm? (Oxy-acetylene is usually dragged anywhere), What about on an oil rig or remote areas? Stick welding is all self-contained with no consumables other than electrodes. With Mig/Mag (Metal Inert Gas / Metal Active Gas) you first need to be able to set the machine up (voltage setting, wire feed & gas flow), have consumables on hand ( Filler wire, contact tips, diffusers & nozzles) & then be ready to start welding. If you can get some experience on an arc welder beforehand, it will make you a better welder on the Mig. I've had some experience on both & what I find most important is having a steady hand & a decent welding helmet.

Personally, I'd go the mig for convenience of not changing electrodes, more control on thinner material & its ease of use at a fixed location. I'd like to be able to tig weld, but that really isn't in the scope of what was asked. Do a welding course, it should help you make your decision for what applications you have in mind.

Re: Gasless flux core;

I've had some recent experience with the gasless wire & I've found it to be useless, it may just be the welder though, I haven't tried it with solid wire. The welds were had porosity & were brittle enough to chip off easily.

 

[tk75]

Well Scott, your probably more confused than ever now Everyone has made some very valid points regarding the +'s and -'s about both Arc(Stick) and Mig welders.
So to make a short list of the advantages and disadvantages of both...
Arc(Stick)
+ The actual unit can be a lot cheaper
+ Less consumables
+ Cheaper consumables
- Does take a bit of learning/practice to get a good clean weld
- Can be a bit more messy(splatter, sparks, etc.)
- Better suited for thicker material

Mig
+ Gives a much cleaner weld
+ Able to weld much thinner material
+ Once it's setup(wire feed, gas flow, etc.) it can just be left there for most material thicknesses
- Units are more expensive
- Much more consumables
- Generally not portable

It's really up to yourself which path you choose to follow and each welder obviously has various +'s and -'s and really depends a lot on the sort of work you'll be doing but if your seriously considering purchasing a welding unit the best thing you can do is the welding course by far, that way you'll learn all the various types of welding and how to use them properly.

Re: Gasless flux core;

I've had some recent experience with the gasless wire & I've found it to be useless, it may just be the welder though, I haven't tried it with solid wire. The welds were had porosity & were brittle enough to chip off easily.

+1
Not worth the muckin round, I too found this to be rather shithouse.

 

[mje1980]

I'm considering buying a small relatively cheap MIG welder through ebay. I'm looking for tips and things to look out for.

I've never welded and I know next to nothing about the kit. I'm confident I'll be able to pick up the skill without too much trouble.

This is prompted by a brew stand project. I've designed a two tier stand and I've bought RHS tube.

A mate has offered to do the job for me with his stick welder. However, there are lots of welds and it'll take a good while. I can imagine taking on a few projects if I buy one ... the brewstand, a frame on coasters for a bar and chest freezer, a stand for a mill and electric motor, fixing the trailer and maybe even an recumbent bike.

Are the 130A units ok? What are their limitations. Is MIG/MAG really worth the extra cost over stick (arc)? What else should I know?

Thanks in advance.

regards,
Scott

Hey scott, i have access to a 15 amp stick welder at work. It is small enough to carry, and if you would like to borrow it mate that's fine. Being a maintence fitter i weld now and then. Stick welding is just as good i think, considering what you're using it for. Sure, mig can be easier to use IF its been setup properly. Stick welding is cheaper, and once you get the hang of it, you can do the same things pretty much, Also, you can weld mild steel, then just change rods if you want to weld SS. The thinner the material, the harder it is to weld, mig or stick.

PM me if you;re keen, and i'll clean the steelworks grease off the machine at work and bring it home mate, you can muck around with it. I'll even get you a helmet, gloves, and some welding rods, mild steel, and stainless.

Cheers mate.

EDIT, i should have added that i can show you how to use it too hahaha

 

[brettprevans]

horses for courses. depends on what your wanting to weld. I found that arc (stick) welders have been great to work with (and play with). but I havent needed to do any real work thats better suited to MIG/TIG welding. I personally found that arc welders were piss easy to use, but then again thats what I first learnt to use when I was 13yrs old.

a tafe welding course is a great idea. its cheap, you should get to use differant welders (arc, TIG & MIG) and you get all the safety instructions and user instructions you need. It will probably keep you from electrocuting yourself.

 

[Zizzle]

I bought a second hand MIG out of the paper a few years ago, mainly with an eye to patching all the rust on my project car. But I got a good brand, even if it had had a hard life. The difference is things like continuously adjustable wire speed, and current, whereas the cheap ones have notchy switches.

I got taught to use a MIG (and arc) during high school. Was enough to get me started, and the rest comes with experience. Ened up doing a lot of welding on that car.

There is nothing like the sizzle and crackle of a MIG on song.

 

[tk75]

Disclaimer: I DO NOT condone the actions in the following pics! The pics are for illustrative purposes only. Please do not comment on the actions, this thread is about welding and it's applications

Unfortunately I don't have pics of the actual welds but the panel was replaced and welded using a stick welder. It was tacked every few centimeters.(And plenty of bog was used too )

 

[sah]

Thanks for all the excellent replies and information and even a very generous offer from Mark.

I'm leaning toward a MIG for a couple of reasons, one the cleaner weld and two because I can easily borrow an arc welder if I want to.

I'll report back with some photos when I complete my first project.

Thanks again.

regards,
Scott

 

[Jazman]

A lot depends on the material u plan to weld Galv can be a pain in the arse and is messy with a mig or arc i personly fing arc to be resonble clean just a bit harder to do fillet welds on light guage but i find it handy at home as if need a mig i can use 3 of em at work