Water To Grist Ratios For The Mash.

[cubbie]

It was a rippa, but i do not want to hyjack this thread!

Cheers!

 

[bindi]

I have a Keep Cold cooler for a mash tun. Never preheat it.
Use 3l/kg and strike water temperature of 73C to get 66C in the mash.

C&B
TDA

[post="110580"][/post]​

Same as above with the Keep Cold, but now I have a 50L ss tun covered in insulation and are yet to use it, so now I am not sure :huh: anyone help here? 6kg of grain at about 23c
Thanks

[post="110592"][/post]​

Bindi,
If your using a 50 lt stainless steel mash tun (like me) it will have a thermal mass of 0.120 and I assume if it's like mine it will weigh around 13 kilo, so you should be able to mash in with your strike temp at 73.5c to get your mash to 66c if your grains were at 23c.

Thats
what I do

cheers
Andrew

[post="110596"][/post]​

Thanks Andrew and Ross, as I thought, good info

 

[Tony]

I have a 50 lter ss ton and use a thermal mass in promash of .175 in summer and .200 in winter but this acounts for the heat that my pump soaks up too so the 0.120 figure previously quoted would be close for sure.

I used a simple method to determine the thermal mass of my system.

Heat the usuall amount of water u use to mash in to 75deg c or so. Make sure you record its exact temperature though.

run it into your mash ton as you would if you were doing a brew and let it sit for about a minuite to stabalise the temps.

run any pumps etc that may change the mash temp at dough in at this time too.

measure the temp again.

now go to promash and put in your grain temp and initial water volumes and temps from the start and wind the thermal mass up till your strike temp is equal to what temp the water cooled down to.

this will give you the systems thermal mass.

mine cools it down 3 or 4 deg depending on how cool or warm my garage is.

cheers

 

[vlbaby]

I have a 50 lter ss ton and use a thermal mass in promash of .175 in summer and .200 in winter but this acounts for the heat that my pump soaks up too so the 0.120 figure previously quoted would be close for sure.

I used a simple method to determine the thermal mass of my system.

Heat the usuall amount of water u use to mash in to 75deg c or so. Make sure you record its exact temperature though.

run it into your mash ton as you would if you were doing a brew and let it sit for about a minuite to stabalise the temps.

run any pumps etc that may change the mash temp at dough in at this time too.

measure the temp again.

now go to promash and put in your grain temp and initial water volumes and temps from the start and wind the thermal mass up till your strike temp is equal to what temp the water cooled down to.

this will give you the systems thermal mass.

mine cools it down 3 or 4 deg depending on how cool or warm my garage is.

cheers

[post="110639"][/post]​

thats interesting tony, i do exactly the same to measure my thermal mass. Maybe it might be a good idea for me to check the accuracy of my temperature probes.

vl.

 

[bindi]

Tony, again all good stuff do you realy look like your avatar though? :blink: scary

 

[Stuster]

I have been using a water to grain ratio of 3:1, but I'm thinking of trying a thicker mash next time, probably 2.5:1. Has anybody found this gives a substantial difference to their beers?

I have been using promash for the temperature calculations and the water is usually about 10c higher than the mash temp I am aiming for. Buuut, I am never exactly spot on the temp so I add 3/4 of the water then check the temp, then add hot or cold water as necessary. (One day very soon I will do the right thing and work it the mash tun thermal mass so I don't have to do all this mucking about. :angry: )

 

[Darren]

SOS,
What does BG stand for?

cheers
Darren

 

[Lindsay Dive]

I thought this topic would create interest.
I use a ten gallon rubbermaid water cooler (bloody near worn out) for the mash tun (fitted with a stainless ball cock valve with a Phil's stainless steel false bottom) I fly spage and my efficiency is always around the 90% mark, often above.
But, I've never gone higher than 2.6 ltr/Kg grist ratio.
I really don't know the pro's and con's regarding the grist ratio......help!

 

[AndrewQLD]

I thought this topic would create interest.
I use a ten gallon rubbermaid water cooler (bloody near worn out) for the mash tun (fitted with a stainless ball cock valve with a Phil's stainless steel false bottom) I fly spage and my efficiency is always around the 90% mark, often above.
But, I've never gone higher than 2.6 ltr/Kg grist ratio.
I really don't know the pro's and con's regarding the grist ratio......help!

[post="110647"][/post]​

Lindsay, you do ask interesting questions don't you :lol: , at the risk of a thorough flaming, as opinions differ on the subject a higher water to grain ratio in conjuction with lower mash temps (read 64-66c) leads to a more attenuating wort. the higher the mash temp and thicker the mash leads to more dextrines being produced.
Go for it guys h34r: h34r:

Cheers
Andrew

 

[Gough]

No flaming from me Andrew. That's basically my understanding and experience as well I guess I'm in the flame line now as well, so fire away :lol:

Shawn.

 

[warrenlw63]

Let's throw all the rules out the window and ask what happens if we reverse the process. For example, we go for a lower LG ratio and lower mash temp (64-65) and our results on a higher LG ratio and higher mash temp? :unsure: This sort of runs a counter to Andrew's thoughts OTOH which I subscribe to and I'd say are on the mark. That said would things change if the process (LG ratios and temps are reversed?) Just thinking experimentally here.

More fuel for the fire and splashing on the flame suits. :lol:

From my own tastebuds and primitive equipment and uneven mash temps. Swirl the thermometer around the grainbed. The differentials can often be scary even after thorough mixing.

I'm all for the higher LG ratio (3:1) only for the fact that I'm of the belief that more liquid in the tun (and reduced viscosity) should disperse the temperature more evenly no matter what. I learnt that lesson from Wes Smith several years ago and seem to gain more consistent results as a consequence.

Lower LG ratios of say 2:1 are bound to create pockets of temperature and grain turmoil. So me, myself and I prefer the higher LG ratio.

Vote for soup over stew. :lol:

Warren -

 

[Lindsay Dive]

C'mon Wes, we're waiting!

 

[warrenlw63]

Bear in mind Lindsay Wes recommended those LG ratios to me when I first started using Marris Otter and Weyermann malts when they first came into circulation here in about 2001.

I've been mashing 3:1 ever since and have no cause to complain.

Warren -

 

[KoNG]

I'm 3:1, but mash in at 2.5:1 and then adjust mash temp with remaining liquor as others have mentioned. i usually use a HLT temp of 10*C above my mashing temp.

Does anyone know the approximate thermal mass for a 10 Gal round Igloo cooler.?

 

[warrenlw63]

KoNG

When I used to use a 10 Gal Igloo I had my thermal-mass set on ProMash at 0.30 IIRC it was the recommended setting by ProMash.

Seemed to work fine. :beerbang:

Warren -

 

[wessmith]

OK,OK, the best L/G compromise in my book is 3:1. Traditional English ale brewers used to use 2.7:1 but I think today you will find them more like 3 or even 4:1. Trying to mash in at 2.5:1 with anything other than a coursely ground grist is difficult and almost nigh impossible in a larger micro.

The optimum L/G ratio for the diastase to be most effective is 2.7:1. However in practice, thinner mashes work best allowing a greater dispersment of the diastase (even though it is slightly more diluted), more even temperatures throughout the mash and overall better temp stability.

I personally use 3:1 for ales and pilsners and 3.5:1 for wheats and wits. It is also a fact that thinner mashes result in more attenuable worts. We have also run single infusion mashes in a micro at 4:1 with no problems.

Wes

 

[Tony]

Bindi..... no thats not me

I mash at 3:1 but have been reading to the contry.

Greg Noonans book says that enzyms are more viable in a thicker mash but he is generally refering to higher dextrin content beers, not easily atenuated maltose based beers.

I king of like malty beers (ales and lagers) so i am going to drop back to 2.5:1 and see what happens.

that mash paddle should keep her stired up.

Here is a pic of me at a B&S ball for those concerned. Mot sure which is scarier

Ah those were the days.

Sorry for hijac

cheers

 

[Jazzafish]

From Pro Mash:

Mash Tun Thermal Mass

The amount of heat (expressed from 0.0 to 1.0) the mash tun will absorb. If you heat your water in the mash tun, or pre-heat the mash tun itself then the thermal mass will be 0.0. If you infuse into a cold mash tun you will need to know the thermal mass. If you do not know the thermal mass of your mash tun, we suggest starting with a value of 0.30 and comparing results with actual strike temperatures hit to accurately determine the thermal tun of your mash. This elements default value can be set in the System Defaults, so the same thermal mass can be used over and over without resetting the element.

So Basically, I just heat my strike water in the mash tun (25L Esky) to the temps pro mash tells me. I always take a temperature reading of the grain as late as possible. Then add the grain to the water. Normally hit the mark pretty easily.

Looking at my last brew,

I had 4.5Kg of grain at 26*C
Heated 13.5L of water to 71*C (3:1 ratio)
Added the grain while stirring to avoid dough balls
Hit target of 66*C

Keep in mind I have a hand held element, and use a fermenter as a HLT.

However I'm going to try underletting next brew. The time it takes to get the water from my hlt to the mash tun may cause a bit of temperature problems?

 

[KoNG]

KoNG

When I used to use a 10 Gal Igloo I had my thermal-mass set on ProMash at 0.30 IIRC it was the recommended setting by ProMash.

Seemed to work fine. :beerbang:

Warren -

[post="110704"][/post]​

Thanx Warren,
i use BeerSmith and i'm fairly certain thats what it is set at.
Although i wonder if it is right, as i heat my water approx 2-3*C higher than the suggested. I guess my manifold system needs to be factored in aswell.?
i bit of tweeking is needed me thinks


Big 400 :super:

 

[warrenlw63]

KoNG

Tweaking can only be achieved by making more beer. What a bugger eh? :lol:

Warren -