Water report for rainwater, anyone??

[Jarrynpitts]

Hey guys,

I am thinking much about adjusting my water profile when brewing however find it expensive to do a water report on my water as it's rainwater. I'm just wondering if anyone has any idea on what kind of water report a rainwater report would look like, I live in country Vic, Riddells Creek specifically and don't think their would be too much difference if the rainwater report was Melbourne water. I'm not prepared to go and spend $200 to get the water tested as good guesswork should get my water profile within the ball park. So, my question is does anyone have a water report or some kind of idea on the minerals/salts etc found in rainwater?

Cheers,

Jarryn

 

[clickeral]

I'd class rain water as pretty much a blank slate tbh

 

[Jarrynpitts]

Okay so it has no suphate, chloride, magnesium in it what so ever? I know that it's soft..

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Hey guys,

I am thinking much about adjusting my water profile when brewing however find it expensive to do a water report on my water as it's rainwater. I'm just wondering if anyone has any idea on what kind of water report a rainwater report would look like, I live in country Vic, Riddells Creek specifically and don't think their would be too much difference if the rainwater report was Melbourne water. I'm not prepared to go and spend $200 to get the water tested as good guesswork should get my water profile within the ball park. So, my question is does anyone have a water report or some kind of idea on the minerals/salts etc found in rainwater?

Cheers,

Jarryn

For my rainwater, I use 5.6 pH as the starting pH this is for hydroponics. Rainwater is lacking in minerals so it comes down to what the tank is manufactured from, plastic, galvanised, or concrete. Plastic would keep it neutral galvanised will add some zinc and concrete will add lime raising the pH. Melbourne water is pretty damn good for brewing I don't notice much difference in the report when the water has gone through the de-salination plant and to the water from the basins which supply the SE suburbs.

 

[Jarrynpitts]

For my rainwater, I use 5.6 pH as the starting pH this is for hydroponics. Rainwater is lacking in minerals so it comes down to what the tank is manufactured from, plastic, galvanised, or concrete. Plastic would keep it neutral galvanised will add some zinc and concrete will add lime raising the pH. Melbourne water is pretty damn good for brewing I don't notice much difference in the report when the water has gone through the de-salination plant and to the water from the basins which supply the SE suburbs.

Thanks for getting in touch.
My tanks are made from plastic. For my rainwater I'm wondering if it's worth buying a pH meter to determine the original pH then adding salts based off that?

 

[Jarrynpitts]

For my rainwater, I use 5.6 pH as the starting pH this is for hydroponics. Rainwater is lacking in minerals so it comes down to what the tank is manufactured from, plastic, galvanised, or concrete. Plastic would keep it neutral galvanised will add some zinc and concrete will add lime raising the pH. Melbourne water is pretty damn good for brewing I don't notice much difference in the report when the water has gone through the de-salination plant and to the water from the basins which supply the SE suburbs.

What salts and amounts do you usually add to your rainwater to get it to the pH of 5.6?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

What salts and amounts do you usually add to your rainwater to get it to the pH of 5.6?

I don't use it for brewing just hydroponics, I add 'pH Up' to get the rainwater to seven. Depending on what you are brewing and how you brew will determine the salts you are going to use. Your base malts will act as a buffer lowering your pH probably further than you would be aiming for. In my last brew a dry stout, I added five grams of calcium chloride and one gram of lactic acid to get my pH to 5.4.
But in saying that I don't mash my dark grains I only mash fermentable grist. All the others go in at mash-out.
Without doing any calculations you will have to add some bi-carb to bring your pH up.
My rainwater is between 5.6 and 5.8 pH.
Is there any reason why you want to use rainwater?

 

[MHB]

You can make water chemistry as simple or complex as you like!

What you really need to as a learning brewer is make sure you have enough Calcium (Ca) in there. It is generally agreed that 50-100ppm (mg/L) is the minimum required to accomplish all the things Ca does. Personally I like to add enough to get 150ppm. My local water only brings about 30ppm so add the balance... For you it’s fairly safe to assume a zero start or close enough.

The most common forms used by brewers are Calcium Sulphate and Calcium Chloride. Sulphate tends to emphasise hop flavours and in higher doses (say over 200ppm Sulphate) a real harshness. Contrary to popular opinion it doesn’t make the beer "Hoppier" or "Bitterer", just more pronounced. One beer where extremely high Sulphate would be appropriate is in a Newcastle Brown, Tasters often refer to the "Newcastle Snatch" if that gives you any clues.

Chloride on the other hand has a mellowing effect on beer. It tends to give beer that is soft and well integrated.

It is quite common to use a mixture to give balance. Often 1/3 of Ca from Chloride and 2/3 from Sulphate is used as a catch-all; it is probably a good place to start.

When doing your pH calculations it's worth remembering that water has a pH of 7, by definition. The 5-5.6pH shown on your pH meter (yes get one, worth it) is from dissolved CO2; by the time you get to mashing heat the CO2 has been ejected (see graph following) and your effective pH is back to 7.

Just on tank water; it’s pretty good for brewing but its far from pure or sterile. I would at a minimum filter it to remove contaminants. Sterilise any water that comes into contact with your beer, it is surprisingly easy to spoil a batch with just a bit of tank water.
Mark

Rainwater Collection

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

You can make water chemistry as simple or complex as you like!

What you really need to as a learning brewer is make sure you have enough Calcium (Ca) in there. It is generally agreed that 50-100ppm (mg/L) is the minimum required to accomplish all the things Ca does. Personally I like to add enough to get 150ppm. My local water only brings about 30ppm so add the balance... For you it’s fairly safe to assume a zero start or close enough.

The most common forms used by brewers are Calcium Sulphate and Calcium Chloride. Sulphate tends to emphasise hop flavours and in higher doses (say over 200ppm Sulphate) a real harshness. Contrary to popular opinion it doesn’t make the beer "Hoppier" or "Bitterer", just more pronounced. One beer where extremely high Sulphate would be appropriate is in a Newcastle Brown, Tasters often refer to the "Newcastle Snatch" if that gives you any clues.

Chloride on the other hand has a mellowing effect on beer. It tends to give beer that is soft and well integrated.

It is quite common to use a mixture to give balance. Often 1/3 of Ca from Chloride and 2/3 from Sulphate is used as a catch-all; it is probably a good place to start.

When doing your pH calculations it's worth remembering that water has a pH of 7, by definition. The 5-5.6pH shown on your pH meter (yes get one, worth it) is from dissolved CO2; by the time you get to mashing heat the CO2 has been ejected (see graph following) and your effective pH is back to 7.

Just on tank water; it’s pretty good for brewing but its far from pure or sterile. I would at a minimum filter it to remove contaminants. Sterilise any water that comes into contact with your beer, it is surprisingly easy to spoil a batch with just a bit of tank water.
Mark

Rainwater Collection
View attachment 124236

Holy shit balls batman! I thought my pH meter was a dud all this time when I have checked my distilled water and tap water pH with it, always read quite low (in the 5's)... Thank you for that explanation makes perfect sense.

 

[sp0rk]

I'd class rain water as pretty much a blank slate tbh

It's definitely not a blank state, depending on where you live you could have lots of NaCl (near the sea), lots of various chlorides and sulfur (near coal mines like me) or any variation of levels
It all depends on what's floating around in the air near you

 

[Jarrynpitts]

I don't use it for brewing just hydroponics, I add 'pH Up' to get the rainwater to seven. Depending on what you are brewing and how you brew will determine the salts you are going to use. Your base malts will act as a buffer lowering your pH probably further than you would be aiming for. In my last brew a dry stout, I added five grams of calcium chloride and one gram of lactic acid to get my pH to 5.4.
But in saying that I don't mash my dark grains I only mash fermentable grist. All the others go in at mash-out.
Without doing any calculations you will have to add some bi-carb to bring your pH up.
My rainwater is between 5.6 and 5.8 pH.
Is there any reason why you want to use rainwater?

The rainwater is just what I have at my house, it tastes great and it's just not really something I'd like to do to go and buy bottled water for my beer, there's not a lot of point bc the rainwater tastes amazing. It's conveiniant to use. I've had some success with finding a water report for the rainwater however, I spoke to a guy at the Homebrew store 'grain and grape' and he reccommended going to a pool shop for a water report. They did it all, but magnesium was vauge as it wasn't registered by the machine. The machine read 0ppm for any salts, eg. Sodium Chrolide, Sulphate etc, so I reckon the magnesium is probably in the same boat there. What do you think? any thoughts on if the magnesium would be higher than 0ppm? The lady at the shop said it's between 0 - 50 ppm. However, It's important I think to consider it's rainwater and there's no salts what so ever. I've attached a photo of the water report to check out. Ignore the 'Ideal range' section as that's for pools.

 

[Jarrynpitts]

You can make water chemistry as simple or complex as you like!

What you really need to as a learning brewer is make sure you have enough Calcium (Ca) in there. It is generally agreed that 50-100ppm (mg/L) is the minimum required to accomplish all the things Ca does. Personally I like to add enough to get 150ppm. My local water only brings about 30ppm so add the balance... For you it’s fairly safe to assume a zero start or close enough.

The most common forms used by brewers are Calcium Sulphate and Calcium Chloride. Sulphate tends to emphasise hop flavours and in higher doses (say over 200ppm Sulphate) a real harshness. Contrary to popular opinion it doesn’t make the beer "Hoppier" or "Bitterer", just more pronounced. One beer where extremely high Sulphate would be appropriate is in a Newcastle Brown, Tasters often refer to the "Newcastle Snatch" if that gives you any clues.

Chloride on the other hand has a mellowing effect on beer. It tends to give beer that is soft and well integrated.

It is quite common to use a mixture to give balance. Often 1/3 of Ca from Chloride and 2/3 from Sulphate is used as a catch-all; it is probably a good place to start.

When doing your pH calculations it's worth remembering that water has a pH of 7, by definition. The 5-5.6pH shown on your pH meter (yes get one, worth it) is from dissolved CO2; by the time you get to mashing heat the CO2 has been ejected (see graph following) and your effective pH is back to 7.

Just on tank water; it’s pretty good for brewing but its far from pure or sterile. I would at a minimum filter it to remove contaminants. Sterilise any water that comes into contact with your beer, it is surprisingly easy to spoil a batch with just a bit of tank water.
Mark

Rainwater Collection
View attachment 124236

Yeah I use water from the fridge, which is filtered. I've been able to get a hold of a water report at a pool shop, the water report is attached, feel free to take a look. It's safe to say I can not only assume zero but can confirm there's zero salts in my water. Magnesium on the other hand is a grey area as the machine used to determine salts doesn't show magnesium. There was a megnesium 'strip' type meter though, like the pH strips. This showed 0-50ppm of megnesium, but because the salts are 0 I reckon the mag is in the same boat. What do you think? have you had any experience with this before?

and thanks for the information, I appreciate it. Also, yeah I'll be getting a pH meter tester pen, any reccommendations? What have you got?

 

[Jarrynpitts]

It's definitely not a blank state, depending on where you live you could have lots of NaCl (near the sea), lots of various chlorides and sulfur (near coal mines like me) or any variation of levels
It all depends on what's floating around in the air near you

Yeah right, good to know. There's nothing floating around me and the water report confirmed it's more of less a blank slate actually, apart from megnesium which is a grey area becuase it was measured with 'strips' like the pH strips. The lady at the shop said it could be between 0-50 ppm of magnesium. Because of the no salts though I feel like perhaps there's no magnesium either and I don't see why there would be considering it's water that's fell from the sky to a metal roof then to tanks.

 

[sp0rk]

Yeah right, good to know. There's nothing floating around me and the water report confirmed it's more of less a blank slate actually, apart from megnesium which is a grey area becuase it was measured with 'strips' like the pH strips. The lady at the shop said it could be between 0-50 ppm of magnesium. Because of the no salts though I feel like perhaps there's no magnesium either and I don't see why there would be considering it's water that's fell from the sky to a metal roof then to tanks.

because anything in the air can mix into those rain droplets
Dust/dirt?
Bam, it mixes in
Sea Spray?
Bam, it mixes in
Potentially there is magnesium oxide in the dirt nearby you, and that getting kicked up into the air has given you this reading

 

[Jarrynpitts]

because anything in the air can mix into those rain droplets
Dust/dirt?
Bam, it mixes in
Sea Spray?
Bam, it mixes in
Potentially there is magnesium oxide in the dirt nearby you, and that getting kicked up into the air has given you this reading

Yeah, hard to say really because the reading is between 0-50 so could be 0 or 50 or 35, I don't really know. I'm just gonna treat it as 0 for a brew I'm doing tomorrow, then go back to the pool shop next Saturday and get another magnesium reading and attempt to read it better (I only took a quick glance at the strip).

 

[clickeral]

Like I said earlier I'd class rainwater as pretty much a blank slate and build from there, as your testing showed. Always been a beliver that if the water tastes good then it'll make good beer, can always improve from there.

I did meet a guy at a swap that used RO water and didn't do any water chemistry additions beer was good but needed salt adjustments to be amazing

 

[Jarrynpitts]

Like I said earlier I'd class rainwater as pretty much a blank slate and build from there, as your testing showed. Always been a beliver that if the water tastes good then it'll make good beer, can always improve from there.

I did meet a guy at a swap that used RO water and didn't do any water chemistry additions beer was good but needed salt adjustments to be amazing

Cool. Thanks for the advice. I'll be brewing very soon and aiming for a balanced brown ale water profile so I'll post to this thread how it goes.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

The rainwater is just what I have at my house, it tastes great and it's just not really something I'd like to do to go and buy bottled water for my beer, there's not a lot of point bc the rainwater tastes amazing. It's conveiniant to use. I've had some success with finding a water report for the rainwater however, I spoke to a guy at the Homebrew store 'grain and grape' and he reccommended going to a pool shop for a water report. They did it all, but magnesium was vauge as it wasn't registered by the machine. The machine read 0ppm for any salts, eg. Sodium Chrolide, Sulphate etc, so I reckon the magnesium is probably in the same boat there. What do you think? any thoughts on if the magnesium would be higher than 0ppm? The lady at the shop said it's between 0 - 50 ppm. However, It's important I think to consider it's rainwater and there's no salts what so ever. I've attached a photo of the water report to check out. Ignore the 'Ideal range' section as that's for pools.

There is enough magnesium in the grain for yeast metabolism during fermentation, but in saying that both Martin Brungard and John Palmer advise putting a couple of grams in with the other salts you are going to need. But I would heed the advice of others tank water could have undesirable elements in it. Use your tank water for cooling if you have a pump.
Get a report from Coliban for Pottable water for brewing and need to know Mg, Ca, Cl, hardness, Sulphates and pH

 

[livo]

One beer where extremely high Sulphate would be appropriate is in a Newcastle Brown, Tasters often refer to the "Newcastle Snatch" if that gives you any clues.

Hmmmm!! I'm not sure if someone tasting my beer and drawing that conclusion would be a compliment or not. I lived in Newcastle for a while and remember at least one questionable experience there at the time. I'll have to think about it for a bit and maybe do some of my own research and taste testing. The beer side of the test will be easy enough. Do you have a recipe?

As for rainwater, I've been making beer with it, as is for over 20 years. Mainly plastic tanks but I have used water from the really old concrete tank as well. I'd imagine the only real problem would arise if you lived in a heavily industrialised area where your water may become "contaminated" by pollution. I think that luckily for us, Australia has only a few localised areas where this could be an issue, and even more so since all the industry is gone.

 

[Eddy Monsoon]

Cool. Thanks for the advice. I'll be brewing very soon and aiming for a balanced brown ale water profile so I'll post to this thread how it goes.

Also bare in mind that your rainwater maybe receiving additional input from fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Not just elemental, but also bacterial