Want to try new grain

[Fro-Daddy]

So I've been doing AG for a little while now, only making ales and usually using MO or a Pale/Wheat mix, sometimes a little crystal/caramalt.
I wouldn't mind something with a bit more colour on tap but the problem is that if I taste anything like coffee in a beer I instantly dislike it. When people say 'chocolate' all I usually taste is coffee as well.
I was wondering what other grains I could try to get some different flavours?

 

[MHB]

A good Crystal at 5-10% of grist, adds a beautiful amber colour and a caramel/toffy flavour.
As you are using MO, why not try one of the "Heritage Crystal" malts, there are a couple on the market, I think both are Medium Crystal around 120EBC and made from Maris Otter, they taste fantastic, worth the small extra cost.
Mark

 

[gaijin]

I'm just lagering my house black pilsner at the moment. It's black with hardly a hint of coffee. I use only ~40% (of total grain) munich for maltiness and body and 2% carafa T1 to T3 for colour. Because the carafa is dehusked, it doesn't add as much of the coffee flavour. This could help you with recipes that are dark without so much coffee flavour. It's almost completely black - check out Kostritzer for a commercial example.

Gladfield have some pretty cool unique malts where you add just a couple of percent to your regular ale recipe to give it a different taste. Shepherds Delight gives a kola flavour with only a few percent added. I've only gone as far as 3% and it's pretty distinct. Adding 10% rye or cararye or even some smoked malt will be a good place to start experimenting. I made an awesome wee heavy with my standard ale recipe plus 5% Weyermann beech smoked malt.

Since you like doing an ale and wheat blend, why not try substituting dark wheat malt. I subbed in gladfields dark wheat and it was a bit like a dark vienna version of a wheatbeer (no coffee).

So many options - I think that's what got me addicted to AG.

 

[welly2]

I made a beer with Special B a while ago. Not sure why I didn't make more of it because it was delicious. Lots of caramel and dried fruit flavours, obviously good for Belgian beers, tasty in dark ales too.

 

[gaijin]

One more thing that might help you avoid all hints of coffee in your malts is the flavour wheel from Weyermann. You can download all Weyermann malt flavour wheels here http://www.weyermann.de/downloads/maltwheel/Weyermann_Malt_Aroma_Wheel_Whole_Kernel_and_Wort_EN.zip

Attached is an example of the carafa wheel. Bit of coffee there but hardly noticeable with the amount of grain you need to get a black beer.

 

[Wobbly74]

In addition to the gladfield option you could also try briess midnight wheat if you're just looking at colour correction.

 

[Fro-Daddy]

Thanks all, judging by the number of options I have, I might need to go to a new home brew shop!

 

[DU99]

Remember some LHBS deliver..

 

[Leyther]

Try Melanoidin, it will give you a nice red colour and nice malty sweetness. I am similar to yourself, I dont drink coffee and I found stouts/porters/etc all taste coffeeish to me, I generally drink Pales and IPAs but I was making a DSGA one day and didn't have vienna so I used melanoidin instead and it was more like a Red IPA which I love, I've just made the same accident beer again it was that good

 

[Thurston Forabrew]

I'm a big fan of the Gladfield Toffee malt. It really shines through even in small amounts. Plus, it's a really interesting malt when it's fresh. Kind of has a chewy, sticky quality to it and is delicious just to eat on its own.

 

[Schikitar]

I've recently tried Special B and also Melanoidin - both great but watch your quantities! Next I really want to try something with Shepherds Delight, probably a Red IPA of some description..

 

[Fro-Daddy]

Quantities are something I really have no clue on. Some descriptions online say up to 100% of the grain bill, so I assume on those I can be pretty generous.
For darker and smokey grains it seems only a few % is necessary when looking at recipes, does that seem about right?

 

[Schikitar]

Yeah, any base malts can be up to 100% but the speciality malts you have to be careful with and again it really depends on what specialty malts and how much a particular style requires of them! I often check out https://www.cleverbrewing.com.au/malts-grains and search for malts there - they usually have recommended amounts and a good selection to look at.

Just don't fall into the trap I usually do which are those kitchen-sink brews; some of this, some of that, a bit more that and some more of this.. all the specialty malts can really add up! I don't know what a good rule of thumb is but I would typically aim for no more than 15% specialty malts but this again all depends on what sort of beer you are brewing. Start with caution, don't try everything at once, plenty of time and when you're researching recipes you'll start to notice what malts are popular in certain styles and in what amounts..

 

[Rocker1986]

Caraaroma. Hands down my favorite crystal type malt ever. I use it at about 6% in a red ale recipe I brew regularly and it's bloody delicious.

 

[Fro-Daddy]

This may sound silly, but what determines a base malt vs a specialty malt?
Are there certain measurable characteristics such as diastatic power or is it purely what can be 'drinkable' at higher percentage in the grist?

I'm going to place an order for a few different types today, postage is a bit of a bummer though.

 

[Schikitar]

Caraaroma. Hands down my favorite crystal type malt ever. I use it at about 6% in a red ale recipe I brew regularly and it's bloody delicious.

Not used it Rocker, what do you like about it in terms of characteristics etc.,?

This may sound silly, but what determines a base malt vs a specialty malt?

No such thing as a silly question I think the saying is, anyway I think this sums it up pretty simply - https://homebrewacademy.com/beer-malt-types/

I'm going to place an order for a few different types today, postage is a bit of a bummer though.

I try and source most stuff from my LHBS but otherwise, living in Tas, I have to get stuff from the mainland quite frequently - I've paid for a lot of postage over the years and feel your pain! Don't rush the order, make sure you have EVERYTHING you need so you don't have to re-order! Even consider getting more for the next brew. Check out the Dealz page on Brewman for better shipping rates - http://www.brewman.com.au/web/showproductlist.asp?catid=2&subcatid=3&subsubcatid=18 - Steve is on these forums and he's a great guy, very helpful. Website could use a lot of work but everything he sells is great and his shipping Dealz are really good!

 

[Rocker1986]

Specialty malts have basically been mashed in the grains. I've done some home made crystal malts before that turned out well, though probably a bit of a different process to what the maltsters use to make it.

@Schikitar I find the Caraaroma gives a reasonably strong toffee/caramel flavor with raisin like tones as well. It's more intense than regular dark crystal malt. 6-7% is the sweet spot for it for me when it's the dominant malt flavor, any more would be too sweet. I've also used it in smaller amounts around 1-2% in ESBs to get more toffee into them. I've read that it's similar to Special B but I haven't used that one so can't comment on that from personal experience. Not even sure why I started using it now, but I'm glad I decided to.

 

[Thurston Forabrew]

Voyager malts are also looking pretty impressive. There is also a guy in central Victoria who is malting a lot of stuff that isn't generally used in 'normal' beers and he's doing it all himself out of hertitage variety grains.
Likewise, check out Colorado Malting Company's offerings. They used to grow one type of barley on their huge farm just for Coors. Now they specialise in growing and malting some really interesting barley and grain alternatives that can make a huge impact at a low grist percentage. Malted sunflowerseeds... In a gluten free beer, this is what can be added to gain body and head retention. Crazy stuff.

 

[Schikitar]

Cool, thanks for that, I used Special B in a porter recently and it was great but what you're describing sounds pretty good for a Red IPA I want to brew soon with my brother. I was looking at Shepherds Delight as well, they sound similar.. hmmm.. sorry, not trying to hijack Fro-Daddy's thread!

 

[Fro-Daddy]

@Schikitar All good buddy, it's all extra knowledge for me!

I've just ordered some Caraaroma, Shepherds Delight and Smoked Barley to try over the next few months, should be fun.