views about the syria situation>?

[vittorio]

Ey guys, non brewing question....Just wondering everyone's views about Syria? since it's been getting major coverage all over the news in recent days

 

[sponge]

Bit of discussion here about it

 

[Dave70]

To lazy to paraphrase myself so i cutted and pasteded it here.

Yes.

We should all be supporting humanitarian aid to the region, they're going to need plenty.

Punishing the Al Assad regime for the use of chemical weapons - Saddam Hussein and Al Assad were / are Ba'athists, so make of that what you will - by bouncing the rubble in Damascus is utterly pointless, and if western governments suppose they can untangle and set right yet another schismatic sectarian conflict between Alawite - Sunni - Shiite branches of islam, (sound familiar?) they're ignorance and stupidity will cost the lives of thousands. This is not a religious war per se, but thats whats driving the brutality. (once again - sound familiar?)
This is a real shitfight and either way you have to pick the lesser to two evils once you throw your hat in the ring. The fact that the rebels have the backing of the Saudis and with Saud al-Faisal getting in the ear of John Kerry, the future looks bleak.

The US can expect to be vilified no matter what it does.

For **** sake, help the victims, but don't act as an intermediary between squabbling Arabs and fundamentalist islamists . Its a zero sum game. Actually, much worse.


And as for that third world pressure group otherwise known as the UN, the fact they once caved in to pressure from the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation to push for 'anti blasphemy laws' speaks volumes about them. They can go **** themselves.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

See what happens when you ban people from drinking alcohol, shiite fights.
Nev

 

[vittorio]

If you look at the news report from media which isnt controlled by the U.S eg/ middle eastern news sites, russian or china, there is no proof that there was chemical weapons being used or a person shooting at the UN inspectors. Iver two things happen, the attack did happen or it was a false flag so America can start a new war. I always disagree with bombing or evading another country to make "peace", i find it really hypercritical..... there always a peaceful solution with diplomacy and America should use that more than bombing a country.

 

[soundawake]

False flag did cross my mind, although I doubt it. And before anyone dismisses it as a conspiracy theory - the US has considered it before (although the circumstances were completely different.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

 

[Camo6]

Do you think they look like settling their disputes on their own any time soon? Truths, half truths or bullshit there's still a whole lot of wanton killing going on and its about time someone stepped in.
God bless religion. The world would be so boring without it.

 

[vittorio]

you all have very good opinion on this matter, since russia and china are against America's judgement, I will be very interested to see what is going to happen in the next month or two!

 

[Droopy Brew]

Do you think they look like settling their disputes on their own any time soon? Truths, half truths or bullshit there's still a whole lot of wanton killing going on and its about time someone stepped in.
God bless religion. The world would be so boring without it.

Why does the US need to take it upon themselves to solve the worlds conflicts? This sort of crap has been going on since Adam fucked Eve so I don't think the US going in and creating even more divide between the west and the east is going to solve anything much less result in less casualties. The truth is these sectarian disputes will never be settled whether they are left to their own devices or the US try to
impose their 'solution'.
The UN,,as useless as they are, need to be the ones to step in as they are the ones that are meant to be administering the International Law- not the US.

 

[yum beer]

Its about time every fucker got real. Shit fights have been going on forever and will continue to no matter who intervenes.
The only result will be the loss of lives of people with no relation to the conflict. As is happening in Afghanistan, has happened in Iraq and any other country America has decided it needs to liberate.
Those of us that are 'lucky' enough to have been born into countries without these problems should have the right to have our way of lives left in tact and not dragged down into the same shit fight that ensues by idiots thinking they can make the world a lovely fair place for all. Be happy that some of its good, leave the fucked up spots alone. America does not like the East interferring with its shit, so leave the East's shit for them to sort out.
I feel for those poor souls being set upon by their own but i'd rather that then insight more shit to come to my neighbourhood.
Put war cash into sorting out the problems at home.

I expect a flaming and really don't care....

 

[Dave70]

If you look at the news report from media which isnt controlled by the U.S eg/ middle eastern news sites, russian or china, there is no proof that there was chemical weapons being used or a person shooting at the UN inspectors. Iver two things happen, the attack did happen or it was a false flag so America can start a new war. I always disagree with bombing or evading another country to make "peace", i find it really hypercritical..... there always a peaceful solution with diplomacy and America should use that more than bombing a country.

There aren't always peaceful solutions, particularly when you're dealing with belligerent uncompromising fanatics who view diplomacy as 'submission'.

Anybody that truly thinks the US is in any way shape or form is looking for a scrap on the streets Syria needs their head examined.
They need this shit like a hole in the head. (pardon the pun).

 

[YoungOne]

False flag did cross my mind, although I doubt it. And before anyone dismisses it as a conspiracy theory - the US has considered it before (although the circumstances were completely different.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

Of course it is a false flag attack. Although I don't think a Western Power is responsible. I'd say rebels or other states in that region.
Why on earth would Assad invite a multinational western attack when he is winning the civil war?

He has nothing to gain and everything to lose. The rebels are in the polar opposite situation.

The Western powers have been clear they want Assad gone. The rebellion they openly formented and grew has been a pitiful failure - and now they need an excuse to tip the balance so their proxies can win.

There are a range of questions that should be asked before declaring war.

What is the evidence of a chemical attack?
Who is responsible?
How can we prove it?
Is an attack helpful at all? Are there other forms of response?
What are the goals of an attack?
Is it lawful to attack a sovereign state for reasons other than self-defence, without a Security Council Declaration.

I find the entire thing very alarming. If we're genuinely committed to a better world and resolving issues with dialogue, then we should make an effort to fact find and have agreed facts and an agreed response from the United Nations.
It's pretty poor that at each stage of this conflict the rebels, and lately, the United States - has refused to meet or cancelled meetings with Syria and Russia that have been organised to try to resolve the conflict.

I note most recently the US has cancelled a meeting with Russia to find an agreed response to Syria. And yet they then claim that the Russians are 'not being helpful' in resolving the conflict.

More talk and less war please.

 

[Dave70]

Of course it is a false flag attack. Although I don't think a Western Power is responsible. I'd say rebels or other states in that region.
Why on earth would Assad invite a multinational western attack when he is winning the civil war?

He has nothing to gain and everything to lose. The rebels are in the polar opposite situation.

The Western powers have been clear they want Assad gone. The rebellion they openly formented and grew has been a pitiful failure - and now they need an excuse to tip the balance so their proxies can win.

There are a range of questions that should be asked before declaring war.

What is the evidence of a chemical attack?
Who is responsible?
How can we prove it?
Is an attack helpful at all? Are there other forms of response?
What are the goals of an attack?
Is it lawful to attack a sovereign state for reasons other than self-defence, without a Security Council Declaration.

I find the entire thing very alarming. If we're genuinely committed to a better world and resolving issues with dialogue, then we should make an effort to fact find and have agreed facts and an agreed response from the United Nations.
It's pretty poor that at each stage of this conflict the rebels, and lately, the United States - has refused to meet or cancelled meetings with Syria and Russia that have been organised to try to resolve the conflict.

I note most recently the US has cancelled a meeting with Russia to find an agreed response to Syria. And yet they then claim that the Russians are 'not being helpful' in resolving the conflict.

More talk and less war please.

You're wasting your time playing the 'tick the boxes for declaring war' game. Nobody gives a shit.
Iraq basically violated every international law repeatedly and sacrificed its sovereignty in the process. By that measure alone the coalition forces had every right under international law to step in and take charge.

It was a just action, not an unlawful invasion, yet the US became international pariahs for it.

 

[YoungOne]

You're wasting your time playing the 'tick the boxes for declaring war' game. Nobody gives a shit.
Iraq basically violated every international law repeatedly and sacrificed its sovereignty in the process. By that measure alone the coalition forces had every right under international law to step in and take charge.

It was a just action, not an unlawful invasion, yet the US became international pariahs for it.

Well, not really. I think if you state a justification for a war then you should be able to make it out.

If the justification is 'we don't like you' or 'we want to build an oil pipeline from Iraq to Israel through Syria to secure our economic future' - then they should just say it.

And they didn't have a right under international law to invade Iraq. The UN Charter, which all invading parties signed, allows war only in self defence or when approved by the UN Security Council.
Which I think is the point, what is the point in agreeing to a set of international norms and rules - and then repeatedly violating them?

 

[Camo6]

Its about time every fucker got real. Shit fights have been going on forever and will continue to no matter who intervenes.
The only result will be the loss of lives of people with no relation to the conflict. As is happening in Afghanistan, has happened in Iraq and any other country America has decided it needs to liberate.
Those of us that are 'lucky' enough to have been born into countries without these problems should have the right to have our way of lives left in tact and not dragged down into the same shit fight that ensues by idiots thinking they can make the world a lovely fair place for all. Be happy that some of its good, leave the fucked up spots alone. America does not like the East interferring with its shit, so leave the East's shit for them to sort out.
I feel for those poor souls being set upon by their own but i'd rather that then insight more shit to come to my neighbourhood.
Put war cash into sorting out the problems at home.

I expect a flaming and really don't care....

When you mean more shit in your neighbourhood what instances do you refer too?
I couldn't give two shits as to which fighter kills the other but when civilians start getting murdered (allegedly) then i can understand a world power stepping in, especially a democratic one. Who is this UN you refer to?

 

[Dave70]

Well, not really. I think if you state a justification for a war then you should be able to make it out.

If the justification is 'we don't like you' or 'we want to build an oil pipeline from Iraq to Israel through Syria to secure our economic future' - then they should just say it.

And they didn't have a right under international law to invade Iraq. The UN Charter, which all invading parties signed, allows war only in self defence or when approved by the UN Security Council.
Which I think is the point, what is the point in agreeing to a set of international norms and rules - and then repeatedly violating them?

We can debate back and fourth about contradictions in UN v international law. I think you'll find the Kurdish peoples for one glad to see Saddam at the end of a rope.

 

[yum beer]

When you mean more shit in your neighbourhood what instances do you refer too?
I couldn't give two shits as to which fighter kills the other but when civilians start getting murdered (allegedly) then i can understand a world power stepping in, especially a democratic one. Who is this UN you refer to?

My neighbourhood is used in the more general sense of a society that believes in peoples rights yet get targetted for attempting to help those societies that don't; terrorist attacks, 9-11, London bombings, or random violence aimed at people in their own country by people from another.

I didn't mention the UN....for a reason.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Has anyone seen the series on ABC1 about the Iraq war tecently...I didnt care much about the reasons....but what happened afterwards with the attempts at organising a new government was....um..interesting......politics,western ideas and religion equalled a shit fight.....

 

[spog]

The Israelis bombed Lebenon again this week (nothing new there,been at each other for...?).
Iraq is a basket case.
Afgahnistan the same as Iraq.
Somalia ditto.
Iran,seems a bit quiet of late, but dont hold your breath.
Egypt is all over the place.
Syria is going down the gurgler.
None of them give a **** about the U.N., which is a toothless tiger anyway.so why should they care about their own people.
Australia is pulling out of operations in the region,so watch the northern horizon for a flood of illegal immigrants in boats.



All things considered,...thank **** i live in the lucky country.


....cheers..spog....

 

[Green-Lobster]

Perhaps we should be asking 10,000 greeks ?.
It all sounds of folly, or business depends on your interest.