Vic X-mas In July 2009 Tasting Thread

[Neill]

yeah don't hold back - i need to know what is crap about it and how to make it better

 

[beerDingo]

15 - Fourstar AIPA:
I enjoyed this beer. It had a nice smell, and an the initial taste/flavour was great. However, the bitterness get's stuck at the back of the tongue, for a bit too long. Over all a good beer.

2 - Fents Bitsa Pale Ale:
I enjoyed this beer slightly more. It didn't have much in the way of aroma, or even hop flavour (especially compared to how it was out of the tap). But it was great in the mouth. It didn't have any lingering bitterness to it.

 

[Wardhog]

5. Brendo - LCBA clone

I'm guessing you were aiming at an APA loaded with B Saaz and Cascade. There's plenty of hop flavour and a good bitterness/malt balance about it. The first taste is Cascade, then subsides and leaves the B Saaz winey taste to linger.

It needs more hops on the nose (try racking to secondary and dry hopping there - it'll give tons of aroma, and might also reduce the haze), and there's something that appears once the initial hop flavour dissipates. I don't know what it is, but I think it's for the best that it doesn't take long to give way to the B Saaz.
Have another go at this beer dry hopped after primary fermentation, it'll be a cracker.

 

[Brewmeister70]

27. Wardhog's Vienna Lager

Great clarity and deep amber colour bordering on bronze. Small head, medium carbonation (maybe my glass?). Slight honeyed aroma with barely perceivable noble hop.

The flavour is all about the malt- Munich being the dominant and the honeyish character is still there in the background. The Bitterness is ultra-smooth and just enough to offset the malt and keep it from being cloying. The complexity is added to by some barely-there flavour hops, Saaz-like in taste.

I could drink this all day long all year long and still not get bored! It has a nutty finish and a medium light, well-attenuated body. Just wonderful and so hard to get clean and properly balanced... Excellent beer Wardhog.

Cheers,

Brewmeister70 :beer:

 

[Brewmeister70]

Just sussed the recipe and have learned a thing or two: Vienna is the malt I confused as Munich and there are no noble hops in this but there is still a really clean and pleasant hop taste there - are Millennium hops German?

 

[Fourstar]

26. Neill - Malty English Ale

Bright copper to amber in colour, stands with a light tan, creamy head which dissipates to light wispy 'pub foam'. Best looking beer so far in terms of clarity. Can read brewing classic styles through it

Rather clean on the nose, very light yeast character, slightly sweet and the lightest solvency and slight fruitiness. No malt/bready aromas here. Onto the lips...

Medium carbonation, rather thin body. Light crystal sweetness is coming through with some pepperyness. Firm bitterness, balanced more towards hops than malt as the body is quite thin. Aftertaste has a lingering maltiness/nuttiness. Quite a session beer. The only negatives I can pick on are a slight 'kit twang' and probably the yeast profile is a bit lacking. Over all a decent kit and extract beer mate.

Looking at your recipe just now... Im surprised you havent started steeping grains etc. That will be the best thing you can do for your brewing right now... if you gave this say 200-400g of a light crystal steep (say 15-30Lovibond) and boiled your hops in that, it would have taken it to another level. The malt profile is a little one dimensional.

Saying that, this beer would fit into the category of a best bitter. If you up your late hopping a little and/or start using un hopped extracts with partial boils and steeping grain, Id say your beers would be fantastic! Next thing you know you will be buying a 3 tier system!

Cheers for the decent beer Neill! Thumbs up!

 

[Quintrex]

Just sussed the recipe and have learned a thing or two: Vienna is the malt I confused as Munich and there are no noble hops in this but there is still a really clean and pleasant hop taste there - are Millennium hops German?

I think millenium are a new aussie variety, a really clean neutral bittering hop.
Used it a few times, i think it's a great all purpose bittering hop.
Q

 

[Leigh]

13. CM2 - Kenzie Dunkle (munich Dunkle style).

Nice dark brown colour (I wouldn't expect anything else from CM2), very little carbonation. Nice caramel flavours with a nice malt aftertaste. A very good drop Brett. I could get used to drinking this beer. I suspect the keg to bottle transfer has let you down on the carbonation front though.

 

[Wardhog]

I think millenium are a new aussie variety, a really clean neutral bittering hop.
Used it a few times, i think it's a great all purpose bittering hop.
Q

I agree. I've become quite a fan of that variety, and have done a number much larger than one of brews with only Millennium at 60 minutes.
Vienna malt is only a couple of SRM short of Munich, so it's pretty hard to pick the difference - but either has every right to be in every beer bar the palest of lagers in my opinion.

I must be getting quite jaded with hops, I find bitterness in the mid to low 20s not enough to keep my interest these days. But, I'm glad everyone's enjoyed it so far - no one agrees with me about the solvent?

14. Hutch - California Common

Sorry Hutch, I'm not going to be of much help here. I have no idea what one is supposed to taste like, I have no idea if yours is a good representation or not.

I'll just give my impression of it instead :
Fizz fizz fizz gone - no wait

High hop bitterness with nice nice nice toasted malt presence. Leaves the palate feeling like it's just had something quite spicy. Can't pick out any fermentation issues, so I'll call this a good, well-made beer but I'll reserve judgement on if it's a good Californian Common because I don't know what one is.

Actually, was there wheat in this? The impressive head when poured + some flavours reminiscent of wheat had me wondering.

 

[chris.taylor.98]

16. Chris Taylor - Red Weizen
Interesting beer Chris. Bubblegum.. sweet bubblegum. only a touch drier finifsh needed. we (fents myself) were debating how you got the colour and I can see now from your recipe it wasnt carroma or carrared. Could have done with a little more carbonation. definitiely a differant wheat beer and a nice change.

yea how good was that bubblegum is chris's! first proper beer i have ever got bubblegum off and i loved it.

thats right wardy's was in the mix too. top beer ward, sensational session beer, it got nailed.

... well thats part of the fun and the frustration of brewing wheaties, you never know what you are going to get in your phenolic and ester profile from the yeast.

This time I had two fermenting side by side, the case swap one was reusing some of the yeast cake from a previous batch, and so was rather generous with its allocation.

The second one (which is going to sampled at the Melb Brewers annual dinner tomorrow night) was innoculated with a very old pack of 3068, and was seriously underpitched ... this one took off like a rocket, went screaming out the blow off tube and was done in 3 days.

Where as the case swap brew started of ok, kind of peaked a bit after 3 days then stalled after 5 days, first time I have ever had a 3068 beer do that.

Other things tried to try and get more esters etc was raising the temp for the first 18hrs (actually got a bit away from me with the rocket beer up to 25C) then cooling it back down to 19C or so for the rest of the ferment.


Anyway all this beer comparison has got me excited about a doing a wheat beer taste side by side, seeing how we have 3 in the case swap .. plus I have some of the slops left over from the Melb Brewers club beer ... better go find a few helpers.

 

[Leigh]

16. Chris Taylor - Red Weizen

Nice reddish amber colour. Good yeast cloudiness. Small head that dissipated. Soapy mouthfeel and extremely sweet. Could taste the wheat, but was far too sweet for me.


14. Hutch - California Common

Dark amber in colour. Poured with a good 10mm head (best head of the swap so far). Head lasted around 5 minutes before dropping to a 1mm head. Clean-fresh aroma, nice toasted maltiness, high hop bitterness. A very nice beer hutch.

 

[Wardhog]

16. Chris Taylor - Red Weizen

Nice reddish amber colour. Good yeast cloudiness. Small head that dissipated. Soapy mouthfeel and extremely sweet. Could taste the wheat, but was far too sweet for me.

This, plus loved the banana notes in this beer.

 

[chris.taylor.98]

17. Brewmeister70 - Kolsch

Some sulfur, slight esters and malt on the nose ... very much wine like.

Poured clear to bright with small white head that dissipated relatively quickly.

Great job getting it this clear with the Kolsch yeast ... did you end up filtering it?

Very dry finish which is accentuating the bitterness, possibly to its detriment

Very slight hint of possible phenolic forming that was detectable in both the aroma and flavour, which is probably also contributing to a harsher than expected finish. Note this could be confused with some sulfur.

Good malt sweetness, and pleasing grain character coming through.

I have to stay this one of the hardest styles to do right.

There is absolutely nothing to hide behind.

I have brewed it 5 times, and only once done it the justice it deserves.

 

[WarmBeer]

22. Lucas - Smoked Porter

Nice dark colour, with just a hint of dark-ruby red through it. Almost clear enough to see through the glass, with no visible sediment. Beautiful

Pours with a small head, about 1mm, which has stayed consistent for the whole glass. You're right about the low carbonation, but it suits the style.

Can just smell a hint of smokiness over the sharp smell of the grains (maybe from black malt?). Not as obviously smoky as I was expecting a smoked beer, but then again, this is my first. No hops discernible in the smell (at least not to this old nose)

Medium bodied mouthfeel, with a long lingering taste. Can still taste the dark grains a couple of minutes after my last mouthful.

Well balanced bitterness, not as sweet as some Porters I've had.

And yes, as the beer warms up, it just gets better. Yum, this is the sort of beer I love.

 

[chris.taylor.98]

16. Chris Taylor - Red Weizen

Nice reddish amber colour. Good yeast cloudiness. Small head that dissipated. Soapy mouthfeel and extremely sweet. Could taste the wheat, but was far too sweet for me.

This, plus loved the banana notes in this beer.

So when you guys say it is too sweet, was it sugar sweetness, or crystal malt sweetness? Also did you think the bottle had carbed up yet? Just asking to see if you think it might need to condition a bit longer.

That being said has every reason to taste a bit on the sweet side.

With all these malts in the grist ( weights in grams)

Crystal Malt Dark (Bairds) 400.00 4.96%
Crystal Malt Medium (Bairds) 300.00 3.72%
Munich II Malt (Weyermann) 1300.00 16.11%
Wheat Caramel Malt (Weyermann) 367.33 4.55%

Add finishing a tad on the high side: 1.016

I am not surprised that its not to everyones liking.

Looks like I am going to have to contain my xtal malt fetish for future case swaps .. I have been know to put over 1.5kgs of the stuff in a 23ltr batch before.

 

[Hutch]

Actually, was there wheat in this? The impressive head when poured + some flavours reminiscent of wheat had me wondering.

Hey Wardy,

Recipe is in the recipe thread... Pilsner, Munich, Caramunich, Medium Crystal and Pale Choc.

Based loosely on Jamil's recipe out of Brewing Classic Styles.
The high hop bitterness perception is probably related to water modification (Gypsum).

Supposedly Anchor Steam Beer is the defining beer of this style, although this is not widely available here.
I have no idea what this style should be like either, but just had to give it a go with the recent availability of US Northern Brewer.
Minty and Woody hop character is meant to be there, but I don't get the mintyness - maybe this was lost by no-chilling.

 

[Leigh]

Hutch, Just finishing yours off now. Definately strong woody hop bitterness. Very, very slight mint in there too (would have missed it if you didn't mention it)...I have noticed the wood getting more pronounced as it warms.

Chris, For me it was malty sweetness, like it hadn't attenuated fully. Don't feel bad, I go in these swaps to get feedback on my beers and to find what styles/beers I like and dislike. In the last swap, my beer was either loved or hated...pretty much the reaction that brew gets from everybody that I give it to! Now I ask people before giving it to them The banana flavours probably turned me off too, can't stand the things LOL.

 

[chris.taylor.98]

Chris, For me it was malty sweetness, like it hadn't attenuated fully. Don't feel bad, I go in these swaps to get feedback on my beers and to find what styles/beers I like and dislike. In the last swap, my beer was either loved or hated...pretty much the reaction that brew gets from everybody that I give it to! Now I ask people before giving it to them The banana flavours probably turned me off too, can't stand the things LOL.

Was really only asking to make sure I understood where you are coming from, and after getting that many low score beers in competitions I consider myself to be pretty resilient to criticism by now

As Neil said, would rather people told me what they thought the issues where than try and pussy foot around offending me, so thanks for the feedback mate. :icon_cheers:

 

[Wardhog]

So when you guys say it is too sweet, was it sugar sweetness, or crystal malt sweetness? Also did you think the bottle had carbed up yet? Just asking to see if you think it might need to condition a bit longer.

Crystal for sure, Chris. You probably could get away with that crystal in a more highly-hopped beer, but with the banana, it just got a little bit much.

Actually, I might steal your malt bill and pair it with 35-40 IBU of Milennium. :icon_drool2:

 

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27. Wardhog - Vienna Lager - Nice beer, went down well with some fish'n'chips. Clean, bit of malt on the nose and taste. Very nice drop right to the end of the bottle.

17. Brewmeister - Kolsch - Probably should have drunk this first, but it was the next one in closest reach. Nice subtle (yeast driven?) aroma. Quite clear. Lager like taste and finish, well balanced. Easy drinking. Hope the kolsch I just brewed turns out as good as this.

:icon_cheers:

Cheers
Mal