Using Out Of Date Extract

[Ross]

Ok.... For approx 25L of 4.2% beer, you could have quite happily pitched the dry yeast direct, pretty pointless going to all that effort on the starter front, especially as you're using very "old" extract. In answer to your question, 1 night should be fine as you already have enough yeast (unless it was well past it's used by date). You won't get a Kolsch style yeast using T-58 but assuming you probably know that.

Good to see you working at making starters etc & expoloring new yeasts, but seriously, get yourself some temperature control, use fresh ingredients & get the basics right first, if you want to make good beer.


Cheers Ross

 

[Paulielow]

Ok.... For approx 25L of 4.2% beer, you could have quite happily pitched the dry yeast direct, pretty pointless going to all that effort on the starter front, especially as you're using very "old" extract. In answer to your question, 1 night should be fine as you already have enough yeast (unless it was well past it's used by date). You won't get a Kolsch style yeast using T-58 but assuming you probably know that.

Good to see you working at making starters etc & expoloring new yeasts, but seriously, get yourself some temperature control, use fresh ingredients & get the basics right first, if you want to make good beer.


Cheers Ross

Yep I know it won't be an actual kolsch but I couldn't get the correct t kolsch yeast and had read that t-58 will be ok but not exact, yeast is fresh (bought it yesterday) but I can't drive atm and usually can't leave the house so I wanted to make some vials of yeast up for future use, hence the starter. I know the extract is old which is why I was going to cc and pour off the wort so as not to add the old extract to my fresh ingredients.

 

[MaltyHops]

Just to add to Ross' post, dry yeast could be pitched direct or rehydrated with
plain (boiled & cooled) water first.

Not sure if you're already well ware of all this but as has been discussed around
here, dry yeasts have been prepared ready to go when pitched and making a
starter can actually hold them back somewhat.

Once you start using liquid yeasts or reuse saved yeast (from this batch of t-58 say)
or grow your own collection of yeasts, you definitely need to make starters.

There are lots of online tools that:
* help calculate how many billions of yeast cells needed for a particular brew
based on volume & OG
* how much yeast you can grow from a starter volume & wort gravity

I like the the calculator linked from THIS post which you can save the page to local
disk and seems to work offline.

One thing to keep in mind is the amount of yeast that can be grown depends on
how much food/barley sugars is in the starter(s) - see THIS.

Starter was 150ml extract, 800ml water, 2 hop pellets boiled for 15min ...

Adding hops is not needed and bit of a waste.

 

[Ross]

Yep I know it won't be an actual kolsch but I couldn't get the correct t kolsch yeast and had read that t-58 will be ok but not exact, yeast is fresh (bought it yesterday) but I can't drive atm and usually can't leave the house so I wanted to make some vials of yeast up for future use, hence the starter. I know the extract is old which is why I was going to cc and pour off the wort so as not to add the old extract to my fresh ingredients.

Paulielow...it will be nothing like a Kolsch, probably close to the worst choice of dried yeast for this style. T-58 will give Belgian style flavours/aromas, spicy with some banana.
K-97 would have been a far better choice or even good old reliable US-05. Hopefully will turn out great though, just be aware of what you'll end up with.

cheers Ross

 

[Paulielow]

Paulielow...it will be nothing like a Kolsch, probably close to the worst choice of dried yeast for this style. T-58 will give Belgian style flavours/aromas, spicy with some banana.
K-97 would have been a far better choice or even good old reliable US-05. Hopefully will turn out great though, just be aware of what you'll end up with.

cheers Ross

Well us-05 is next on the list so should I just make up my vials and store this away and use the 05 instead? Couldn't get k-97 either... Also I thought a Belgian style yeast was required for kolsch instead that what t-58 is?

 

[almopec]

If its not too late.
I used an old can of extract to experiment with, for lager creation and techniques a while back. Probably not the best style to be aiming for, but none the less it was an experiment.
Anyhow its not my best beer, but its drinkable and it was an experiment. So not a big loss in my books.

 

[petesbrew]

Well us-05 is next on the list so should I just make up my vials and store this away and use the 05 instead? Couldn't get k-97 either... Also I thought a Belgian style yeast was required for kolsch instead that what t-58 is?

What's your actual recipe, Paulielow?
Just interested, that's all.

US-05 is a good one to keep stored in the fridge. Very useful yeast.
T-58, I've only used it a few times, but it went well in a belgian golden strong ale (but took 6months aging to come good).

 

[Paulielow]

What's your actual recipe, Paulielow?
Just interested, that's all.

US-05 is a good one to keep stored in the fridge. Very useful yeast.
T-58, I've only used it a few times, but it went well in a belgian golden strong ale (but took 6months aging to come good).

25L batch

1.5kg tin TC light LME
1kg extra light DME
500g dextrose
40g saaz 4%@60
20g hallertau 3%@30
10g hallertau 3%@15
T-58(but probably us-05 now)
1 whirlfloc tab@15

15L water to boil then add tin of LME , boil till hot break then start timer, saaz at 60min, first hallertau at 30min, then last at 15min, add rest of fermentables at flame out and cool in ice bath then into the fermenter and topped up with cold filtered water out of the fridge. Shake the **** out of it add yeast starter shake again add airlock ferment in bathtub full of water and frozen bottles aiming for between 18-20oC for 3 weeks then cold crash 3 weeks in fridge and add finings 2 days before bottling and leave it alone for a few months.

 

[manticle]

Well us-05 is next on the list so should I just make up my vials and store this away and use the 05 instead? Couldn't get k-97 either... Also I thought a Belgian style yeast was required for kolsch instead that what t-58 is?

Kolsch is a german beer, originating in Koln

 

[Paulielow]

Kolsch is a german beer, originating in Koln

I should have paid more attention in geography I guess... Oh well any suggestions on what to use the t-58 for? Or will the above recipe still make a nice beer using t-58

 

[manticle]

Haven't used it mate. Mixed reports abound - I tend to stick to liquid yeasts.

 

[Nick JD]

T-58 is pretty average. It's a little like W1762, but not really in a good way. A bit like using US05 and adding peppercorns.

US05 makes a "Kolschy" beer, especially if you ferment it in the early 20s and it gets a tiny bit fruity.

 

[Paulielow]

T-58 is pretty average. It's a little like W1762, but not really in a good way. A bit like using US05 and adding peppercorns.

US05 makes a "Kolschy" beer, especially if you ferment it in the early 20s and it gets a tiny bit fruity.

Might just make up some vials and use it for strong ales and wheat beer then.. ill start the us-05 tommorrow..

 

[Ross]

I should have paid more attention in geography I guess... Oh well any suggestions on what to use the t-58 for? Or will the above recipe still make a nice beer using t-58

Despite Nicks "pretty average" comments, it's a great yeast. But like with all yeast it's knowing how to use it & in what beer.
In 2009 Andrew Clark brewed a Belgian strong ale with t-58 that took out Champion beer of show in the Qld State Championships. The beer was judged by Ian Watson (highly respected Belgian Beer brewer/lover/judge) who reckoned it was the finest homebrewed beer he'd ever drunk - Not bad with a pretty average yeast - LOL

Cheers Ross

edit; dropped the e off clarke

 

[Paulielow]

Despite Nicks "pretty average" comments, it's a great yeast. But like with all yeast it's knowing how to use it & in what beer.
In 2009 Andrew Clark brewed a Belgian strong ale with t-58 that took out Champion beer of show in the Qld State Championships. The beer was judged by Ian Watson (highly respected Belgian Beer brewer/lover/judge) who reckoned it was the finest homebrewed beer he'd ever drunk - Not bad with a pretty average yeast - LOL

Cheers Ross

edit; dropped the e off clarke

Belgian strong ale ah..... Might have to look into that one, cheers.

 

[enuun]

i normally buy old cans from my LHBS whenever they have a clearance
and I use them either heavily hopped or as a toucan.
Its fine. But you will not be impressed

 

[Nick JD]

Despite Nicks "pretty average" comments, it's a great yeast. But like with all yeast it's knowing how to use it & in what beer.
In 2009 Andrew Clark brewed a Belgian strong ale with t-58 that took out Champion beer of show in the Qld State Championships. The beer was judged by Ian Watson (highly respected Belgian Beer brewer/lover/judge) who reckoned it was the finest homebrewed beer he'd ever drunk - Not bad with a pretty average yeast - LOL

Cheers Ross

edit; dropped the e off clarke

There you go Paulie - use T58 and you'll win competitions. Easy.

Or it could be that Andrew's skills are mainly responsible? I'm sure that's what Ross meant to say.

I'd like to know of a yeast that hasn't been used to win a competition at some point...

And where do I get some french oak?

I still think it's a pretty average yeast. Maybe I just don't like peppery beer.

 

[Ross]

There you go Paulie - use T58 and you'll win competitions. Easy.

Or it could be that Andrew's skills are mainly responsible? I'm sure that's what Ross meant to say. Not what I meant to say at all, but he knows how to use the yeast & has done so on many occaisions with great results.

I'd like to know of a yeast that hasn't been used to win a competition at some point... Considering the yeast profile was a very important part of Andrews beer & it won with outstanding comments, i'd say it's pretty conclusive that the yeast is far from poor.

And where do I get some french oak? From CraftBrewer or any other good brew shop B)

I still think it's a pretty average yeast. Maybe I just don't like peppery beer. Maybe you just hit the nail on the head, & you not liking a yeast doesn't make it "pretty average". It certainly doesn't taste like US-05 with peppercorns if used correctly.

Cheers Ross

 

[manticle]

Was that a golden strong with Oak? (Andrew Clarke as in AndrewQLD?)

If so, I tried a version when I won a beer lotto.

Damn tasty.

 

[Nick JD]

Cheers Ross

1st Angus Williams 109.5 VIC 15.2 Belgian Golden Strong Ale Wy1214 1079 1011 242
2nd Craig Webber 107.5 ACT 15.2 Belgian Golden Strong Ale 1079 244
3rd David Clarke 102.5 QLD 15.5 Belgian Dark Strong Ale Wy3787 1085 1016 148
4 Brenton Rehn 102 SA 15.1 Belgian Blonde Ale 1067 321
5 Andrew Clark 101 VIC 15.2 Belgian Golden Strong Ale T-58 1076 1012 161
6 Stu Whytcross 99 ACT 15.4 Dubbel Wy3522 1065 1018 298
7 Bill Turner 98.5 ACT 15.5 Belgian Dark Strong Ale WLP530 1096 1034 296
8 Liam Ahearn 96.5 QLD 15.3 Tripel Wy3787 1075 1012 104
9 Grant Stott 93 VIC 15.4 Dubbel Wy3522 1066 1012 234
10 Michael Meissner 91 NSW 15.1 Belgian Blonde Ale Wy3538PC 1075 359
11 William Steudler 90 WA 15.1 Belgian Blonde Ale Wy3739PC 1048 1008 287
12 Andrew Squire 89.5 NSW 15.5 Belgian Dark Strong Ale Wy1388 1081 180
13 Anthony King 88.5 SA 15.1 Belgian Blonde Ale T-58&Wy3787 1070 1012 126
14 Jared Birbeck 86.5 SA 15.5 Belgian Dark Strong Ale Wy1762 1071 266
15 Paul Hyatt 84 WA 15.4 Dubbel Wy1214 1068 1012 140
16 Perry Burt 79 QLD 15.4 Dubbel Wy3864PC 1078 1020 152
17 Clinton Mitchell 70 WA 15.4 Dubbel Wy3522 1070 1012 196

I'd say this above shows it's not a very popular choice for the style. Because it's pretty average. Would have been better to use what the winner used ... but Andrew is a genius for making a winning beer with T58, what with it being a yeast no one else chooses, because it's pretty average.

Nah - I just don't prefer it to the estery, phenolicy belgian yeasts that nearly everyone in the above list used - probably for the same reasons they had to not choose it. It's averageness.