Using enzymes for mashing

[manticle]

Yorkshireman 1: "Them days we were glad to 'av the price a cup o'tea".
Yorkshireman 2: "A cup o' cold tea."
Yorkshireman 3:"Without milk or sugar"
Yorkshireman 4:"Or tea"

 

[Parks]

Reinheitsgebot originally didn't include yeast either.

Still doesn't AFAIK. The yeast addition comes under Vorläufiges Biergesetz.

So jaypes you better not be adding yeast, my friend!

 

[jaypes]

I have a stick that I use to stir the mash, been used in my family for centuries!

 

[Rurik]

No enzymes needed

Umm there is enzyme's in the grain. It is how we malt it.

 

[jaypes]

Umm there is enzyme's in the grain. It is how we malt it.

Correct, the OP was talking about adding enzymes - something that you dont really need to do if you have a proper formulated recipe that has enough diastatic power

 

[manticle]

I have a stick that I use to stir the mash, been used in my family for centuries!

Doesn't count if it's not Bavarian forest Henschenstaaten oak though.

 

[jaypes]

I will have to check, but I believe it is

 

[manticle]

All you need is a bit of help from Helga and it looks like you're good to go.

 

[jaypes]

How did you know my wife's name was Helga?

 

[manticle]

I have a network of spies.

 

[Bribie G]

How did you know my wife's name was Helga?

Commiserations, hope divorce wasn't too painful.

 

[jaypes]

Not really!

You can have her!

http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/ae357/horrible_helga/helga2new.jpg

 

[manticle]

Discussion can happen in more sensible ways. Cut the name calling, work out the differences with civility and without aggression. The bonds that occur between finings and various particles are often chemical in nature. The renheinhenshgibottenlawen thing is just a thing that most people misunderstand.

To help the op - who wants to buy some cheap, feed grade unmalted barley, add some special 'enzymes' and try and make beer in 5 minutes?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

To help the op - who wants to buy some cheap, feed grade unmalted barley, add some special 'enzymes' and try and make beer in 5 minutes?

You wont get that malt flavour & profile from just using enzymes.

Malted grains are toasted. Thats what gives you "that" flavour. The slight caramelising in pale/pilsner malts to full on caramel in xtals.

 

[Not For Horses]

You wont get that malt flavour & profile from just using enzymes.

Malted grains are toasted. Thats what gives you "that" flavour. The slight caramelising in pale/pilsner malts to full on caramel in xtals.

The good doctor Maillard will be sad that he didn't get a mention. He too plays a key role in beer flavour and is very hard to find in raw barley.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

We only talk beer here.

Using raw grain & added enzyme is not going to give you the best beer as you wont have flavour compounds that make beer so yummy. You would end up with bland boring beer.......ie Corona

 

[old mike]

I was not advocating the use of enzymes for any other reason than mashing, just explaining why I was interested in using them.

 

[philmud]

For the sake of playing devil's advocate, could the use of enzymes not allow a brewer to bypass the steeping and germination phases of malting, but allow the "maltster" to toast the barley to achieve flavour? I can see problems with this process, the least of which is not that inexperienced maltsters would find it hard to predict the colour/flavour profile of their grains, but is there any reason it wouldn't work?

 

[Mardoo]

Interesting. You couldn't create crystal-type flavors by toasting the barley. You have to malt the grain to get the sugars that allow caramelization. Other than that I'm now growing curious to see what flavors one COULD achieve.

 

[Not For Horses]

It would work, but you would not get the same flavours because the components that take place in chemical reactions to produce flavour compounds are different.
During malting, the enzymes in the grain get to work converting complex starches, carbohydrates and proteins into simpler starches, carbohydrates, amino acids, lipids, some reducing sugars and a few other bits and pieces.
Free amino nitrogen (FAN) is also increased during malting which is a building block later on for ester production.
Amino acids and reducing sugars are consumed via Maillard reactions to produce melanoidins which we all know and love for that rich 'malty' flavour that they bring. Melanoidins are also responsible for some colours too.
Total soluble nitrogen is also higher using malt. Yeast like nitrogen.

So yes, it is possible to make beer with only raw barley. But it won't be the same beer.