Using Beersmith

[Ckilner]

I've been using Beersmith2 with great success brewing light and medium body ales with a Braumeister 20l. The recipes seems to be pretty accurate with regards to the OG when I brew light and medium body but as soon as I try a full body mash I always miss the OG by a fair amount. For a light body mash I use the steps:

Mash In 38.0 C
Protein Heat to 52.0 C over 14 min 52.0 C 5 min
Maltose Heat to 64.0 C over 12 min 64.0 C 75 min
Saccharification Heat to 73.0 C over 9 min 73.0 C 30 min
Mash Out Heat to 78.0 C over 5 min 78.0 C 20 min

For a medium body I use:

Mash In 38.0 C
Protein Heat to 52.0 C over 14 min 52.0 C 5 min
Maltose Heat to 67.0 C over 15 min 67.0 C 60 min
Saccharification Heat to 73.0 C over 6 min 73.0 C 30 min
Mash Out Heat to 78.0 C over 5 min 78.0 C 20 min

Both of these get the OG just right.

When I use this for a full body I miss the OG target. The last brew was supposed to be 1.065 but I only got 1.055 :-(

This is the mash profile for full body:
Mash In 38.0 C
Protein Heat to 52.0 C over 14 min 52.0 C 5 min
Maltose Heat to 69.0 C over 17 min 69.0 C 45 min
Saccharification Heat to 73.0 C over 4 min 73.0 C 30 min
Mash Out Heat to 78.0 C over 5 min 78.0 C 20 min

You'll notice that I'm only changing the Maltose step. Is this where I'm going wrong perhaps?

 

[marksy]

Try a longer step time then 45min. All your others are longer then 60mins, and if your getting good results with the others that would be the first thing I would try. I only have an eksi but my mash temps are 64-68c and I usually leave its for 1.5hrs, stirring every 30mins if I remember too.

How many full bodies have you made? A bit of trial and error I reckon tweaking your system to your needs.

Marksy

 

[Ckilner]

So if I increase the Maltose step from 45 mins to 60 mins then hopefully that will squeeze a bit more out of the malt. My only concern is that it will reduce the body but I hope the temp of 69 degs may maintain that.

 

[marksy]

Trial and error. You are not going to wreck it by trying. But since that is the step you have changed that should be the step you change back first to see your results. I could be wrong but body is dependent of temp?
The other thing you could do is adjust your grain bill to compensate for the loss.

Let is know how you go!

 

[Ckilner]

I have a brew day planned for tomorrow so will test out the theory and do a maltose step at 69 degs for 60 mins instead of 45 mins. I'm reluctant to throw more grain at it because Beersmith's predictions have been good so far and I'm really impressed with the software so there must be something else that's messing up the calculations. We'll see if it's the maltose step. At worst I'll have another 5 gallons of beer to drink that's not quite as strong as I'd planned - worse things happen at sea as they say.
I'll report back in 24 hours.

 

[Ckilner]

Completed the brew with the adjusted mash step from 45 mins at 69 degC to 60 mins at 69degC and the OG is as predicted so that appears to have done the trick. The proof will be in the drinking to find out if it has full body or not. A few weeks to wait for that unfortunately.

 

[marksy]

That's a good result so far, hopefully you'll get your full bodied beer other wise adjust the grain bill and do the original 45min step to see if that helps.

 

[Cervantes]

Hi,

I also have a 20L Braumeister, but to date have not fully utilised the step mash functionality.

My understanding is that the Protein rest at 50 can reduce head retention and body when using fully modified malts.

Having actualy used a protein rest yourself, have you noticed the effect?

What malts/grains are you using for your recipes?

Many thanks

Cheers
Andy

 

[Ckilner]

I now have three mash programs; light, medium and full body.

Light Body
Mash In Add 25.00 l of water and heat to 38.0 C over 0 min 38.0 C 0 min
Protein Heat to 52.0 C over 14 min 52.0 C 5 min
Maltose Heat to 64.0 C over 12 min 64.0 C 90 min
Saccharification Heat to 73.0 C over 9 min 73.0 C 30 min
Mash Out Heat to 78.0 C over 5 min 78.0 C 20 min

Medium Body
Mash In Add 25.00 l of water and heat to 38.0 C over 0 min 38.0 C 0 min
Protein Heat to 52.0 C over 14 min 52.0 C 5 min
Maltose Heat to 67.0 C over 15 min 67.0 C 75 min
Saccharification Heat to 73.0 C over 6 min 73.0 C 30 min
Mash Out Heat to 78.0 C over 5 min 78.0 C 20 min

Full Body
Mash In Add 25.00 l of water and heat to 38.0 C over 0 min 38.0 C 0 min
Protein Heat to 52.0 C over 14 min 52.0 C 5 min
Maltose Heat to 69.0 C over 17 min 69.0 C 60 min
Sacharification Heat to 73.0 C over 4 min 73.0 C 30 min
Mash Out Heat to 78.0 C over 5 min 78.0 C 20 min

As you can see, I only change the maltose step to hotter and shorter to increase the body which I think should do the trick but I'm still experimenting.
I have nearly always used Maris Otter Pale malt 2 row as my base and I've continued using it while I adjust the mash steps. I did read that the steps weren't necessary if a fully modified malt was used so I tried a brew or two with just a single maltose step but this was rather a failure as the specific gravity at the end of the mash was way lower than it should be. I've now gone back to using a 4 step mash and the results are good again.
I always add wheat at about 5% for head retention and some acid malt to get the pH right without the need to add too much lactic acid. I generally brew really pale beers which are heavy on Citra, Amarillo. I'm experimenting now with the same recipes but different bodies to fully test the mash schedules.

 

[Cervantes]

I always add wheat at about 5% for head retention.

Which would justify a protein rest.

I've been using Carapils or Crystal Malt to aid head retention which wouldn't need the protein rest.

I did get out "How to Brew" last night and re-read the section regarding modified malts and protein rests. What he actually says is that extended protein rests can reduce body and head retention, so I don't think that the five minute rest in your profiles would have any detrimental effects.

Do you think that there is a difference between using acidified malt and lactic acid? I understood that acidified malt was just malt sprayed with lactic acid and was used in Germany to get around the "Reinheitsgebot" - very strict rules that they have in Germany regarding the use of anything other than natural ingredients in their beer.

I'm in the same situation and need to add acid to control pH levels, but have opted for using lactic acid rather than acidulated malt.

I have to experiment more with multi step mashes in the real world, but I know that if I punch them into Beersmith they actually give me a worse efficiency than a single rest.

I'm generally brewing British Ales and the odd IPA.

Thanks for sharing your mash profiles.

Cheers
Andy

 

[Ckilner]

I don't add Carapils or Crystal Malt as it darkens the beer a bit and I prefer them really blonde.
I agree with you about the acid malt. My brews have both acid malt and lactic acid but I'm beginning to think that there's not much point in using acid malt if I'm adding lactic acid anyway. The wheat should do the job for head retention and I'm not worried about German rules.

 

[Black n Tan]

I don't add Carapils or Crystal Malt as it darkens the beer a bit and I prefer them really blonde.
I agree with you about the acid malt. My brews have both acid malt and lactic acid but I'm beginning to think that there's not much point in using acid malt if I'm adding lactic acid anyway. The wheat should do the job for head retention and I'm not worried about German rules.

Carapils does not contribute to flavour nor colour, but will provide body and assist head retention. Crystal will add colour and flavour and head retention. One thing you might consider is changing your protein rest from 52C to 55C. At 55C proteases are activated which favours the formation of medium molecular weight proteins which are good for head retention. At 52C peptidase is active which will breakdown the mid molecular weight protein into low molecular weight proteins which will be detrimental to head retention.

 

[Ckilner]

Thanks. I'll give that a try. Do you think the protein step of 5 mins is about the right length of time?

 

[Black n Tan]

Seems reasonable and it is what I currently use, 5 mins at 55C.