Users Of The "no Chiller Method"

[browndog]

Mate,
I simply rack straight from the kettle, after whirlpooling and letting it settle for 10min and you get the most clear wort you could imagine running though the racking tube. I leave it over night then refridgerate to 18C and pitch. I have never worried about oxygenating and have never had a problem with yeast. It is the way to go.

cheers

Browndog

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

Mate

Dude, the "prove you wrong" thing was a joke of sorts...don't take offence...please read again h34r:

What I meant was that if you can do it that way so many times without problems, then I'm happy to try it out myself

PZ.

 

[Murray]

Mate

Dude, the "prove you wrong" thing was a joke of sorts...don't take offence...please read again h34r:

What I meant was that if you can do it that way so many times without problems, then I'm happy to try it out myself

PZ.

Shh, the no chill mafia will find you and kill you!!

 

[browndog]

Never the hint of offence taken by me FB. Good luck with your no chill endeavours


cheers

Browndog

 

[Screwtop]

Quick question guys. I did my 1st no chill the other week, and when i checked it yesterday, it was 1.002, yep, 1002.

Very interesting mje1980 - I occaisionally use a "semi no chill method" when there's a wind blowing on brew day, i transfer the wort at 65c+ into the fermenter (hot enough to knock any wild yeast over) & let chill overnight in the fridge before pitching the yeast. The last 2 brews I did this to fermented down further than i expected. My 1082 Imperial APA dropped to 1010 a massive 87% attenuation. There's certainly no off flavours in either brew, maybe the break material is liked by the yeast... anyone else getting above average attenuation with their no chill brews?

cheers Ross

My gear prevents me from testing no chill. Kettle too low on my burner, no way of raising a kettle full of hot wort to drain to fermenter/cube. However I recently transferred cooled wort via a hose from kettle to the bottom of a fermenter without using my conical sieve as I usually do to catch left over break and hop trub. Even though I whirlpool some still gets drawn in by the pickup. Being paranoid due to recent infections I was trying to get the wort into the fermenter without aeration so put the hose to the bottom of the fermenter and drained everything out of the kettle. As in Ross and mje1980's findings above this wort fermented down the lowest of any of my AG brews to 1.006 using a yeast I'd used many times before without achieving such attenuation. As per their comments, no off flavours, maybe the yeast do like the break material, would be interested in the PH difference of wort once fermenting for a few days in a sample of, chill vs no chill, including break and trub, versus trub and break removed.

 

[hupnupnee]

Hi no chillers, :beer:

Just thought I might share my "no chill' experiences with you all.

I am a recent convert back to chilling due to three bad experiences with 'no chill'. I did nc on three brews in a row, a porter, an apa and a stout. Recipies where very standard and simple ag recipies.

Beer one (PORTER)
Straight after boil I whirlpooled, then racked into two sealable containers (small cubes) to cool. Next day the wort temp was down to about 18* (we live in the chilly southern highlands). I then poured the whole kettle contents into the fermenter, break and all, aerated pitched and away we went.

Beer two (APA)
Straight after the boil I whirlpooled then alfoiled the rim of the kettle to stop contamination then left it over night. Next day the wort temp was down to about 18*. I then poured the whole kettle contents into the fermenter, break and all, aerated pitched and away we went.

Beer three (Stout)
Straight after the boil I whirlpooled then alfoiled the rim of the kettle to stop contamination then left it over night. Next day the wort temp was down to about 18*, I racked to the fermenter. Aerated pitched and away we went.

Not really a lot of difference between the beers in terms of cooling technique. I usually cool in the kettle and then transfer to the fermenter the next morning and I've got good results in the past.

However!!! These three brews all suffered the same fate, that is they never cleared, each of them has a significantly large amount of something suspended in the beer making them so cloudy they are opaque. Not a big problem for the stout and porter but not good for the apa. There is a slightly funny taste that I can not ID. It is not yeast that is suspended. I used WLP300 in the porter and Nottingham in the APA and the Stout. The stout was pitched on the the APA yeast cake. The APA is the worst followed by the porter and the stout is the clearest.

The beers are pretty good but far from great. :unsure:

The last two brews I have done have both been chillers, keen for any ideas as to what might have happened.

Floculator

Tim

 

[devo]

Back on topic
FB, you can rack straight to your fementer, let it chill overnight, chuck it in the fridge then next day to get it to pitching temp then away you go. I have done 12 or so brews like this with no probs what so ever.

cheers

Browndog

agreed, that's how I did my first no chill.

 

[Ash in Perth]

is the APA a bit soapy?

 

[hupnupnee]

Yes a little why?

 

[Ash in Perth]

soapy flavours can come from leaving the beer sitting on the trub for too long. soaps are chemically similar to the lipids which make up part of the trub. This is one of the reasons I disagree with the no-chiller method. Leaving the wort hot, sitting on the trub for a substantial length of time allows all sorts of reactions to take place, inlcuding getting those soapy compunds form the trub.

It can also happen when fermenting if alot of trub gets into the fermenter. cylindro conicals will fix this problem because you can let if off from onder the yeast cake.

 

[Stuster]

I'd agree with Ash re the problem coming from too much trub and it might be a good idea to rack off the trub/break material into the fermenter. My understanding though was that these reactions occurred post-fermentation. From Palmer

Under some conditions, the yeast will also consume some of the compounds in the trub. The "fermentation" of these compounds can produce several off-flavors. In addition, the dormant yeast on the bottom of the fermentor begin excreting more amino and fatty acids. Leaving the post-primary beer on the trub and yeast cake for too long (more than about three weeks) will tend to result in soapy flavors becoming evident.

Can these reactions also occur pre-boil, Ash?

 

[Stuster]

Oh, and hupnupnee, did you really use WLP300 with a porter? :blink:

That might explain the lack of clarity with that one. Perhaps send a bottle up to Batz for evaluation. :lol:

 

[bindi]

Oh, and hupnupnee, did you really use WLP300 with a porter? :blink:

That might explain the lack of clarity with that one. Perhaps send a bottle up to Batz for evaluation. :lol:

Funny I thought the same thing, Hefe yeast in a porter just Batzs style [not].
I will evaluate it for you.

now done a couple of dozen beers the no chill way and not a hint of "soap", but I do pitch 99% of the time the next day and never more then 48 hrs. After going into the cube [so far].

 

[hupnupnee]

Oops :blink: what am I talking about, I've got HEFF on the brain, I mean wlp833, I was attempting a porter in the style of the old Malt Shovel.



Well the trub seems like it then, and it certainly makes sense to me that some soaps could form. I can see it accounting for the flavour, will that also account for the VERY server haze/murk.
Are the lipid precursors coming from the boiled hops trub or the wort trub?

Thanks for the input.

Tim

 

[Bizarre]

I bottled my first no chill thru the week and didnt have time to post about it. I dont like wasting water which is one reason I decided to give it a go - it tasted good on bottling - no off flavours of any description. When I'd finished boiling the brew I just left it overnight in the kettle to cool and dumped it in the fermenter the next day. It was fermented at 15C and then give a 3 day diacetyl rest at the end of ferment.

The only issue that I can see for me with no chill is when the weather warms up. I dont have a fridge spare or even one big enough to take a fermenter or a cube full of wort, and when the ambient temperature is up you will get nowhere near as much cooling, so I may have to resort to some sort of chilling of some description (not sure what tho). I had thoughts of a big bucket full of ice and water with a pump circulating thru a coil in the wort (or some sort of thing like that), but anyways thats getting away from the subject a bit.

What are others doing? I suspect most of you probably have fridges to do your final cooling in - makes me feel inadequate that I dont have one! Hehehe

 

[Fents]

Hey all just put a brew on, mashing away and its about 45 mins till im gonna boil.

Im struggling to think of a way to force chill 23litres in a 50 litre keg (50 litre keg is my cooking pot)...My missus will spit it if i use the bath and the sinks not big enuff.

With this no chill method can i put the wort straight into the fermenter from the boil and then put the fermenter in the fridge? Or even just leave it out, sealed overnight? And then once its down to yeast temp just pitch?

 

[Stuster]

That'll work, fents. I'd leave it out overnight and pop it into the fridge in the morning if it needs it. Probably best to pitch tomorrow though with this method.

 

[Fents]

Cheers Stu.

I Always pitch at 18-20c so yea was def going to wait till tommorw. Thanks again.

 

[Ken Man Do]

I got antzy and kegged up my latest NC beer. It's a Vienna lager and, though young, this beer is well on its way to becoming OUTSTANDING! It's not as clear as it will get, but I'm gonna have a hard time staying out of it.

I detect nothing odd about this beer, nothing I could attribute to NC. This beer will make it to a few club meetings next month for some more taste-testing. By the way, if you have other tasters try your NC, don't bias them by telling them ahead of time about the method you used to cool your beer. It's the only way to get a fair assessment.

Ken

 

[dicko]

Hey all just put a brew on, mashing away and its about 45 mins till im gonna boil.

Im struggling to think of a way to force chill 23litres in a 50 litre keg (50 litre keg is my cooking pot)...My missus will spit it if i use the bath and the sinks not big enuff.

With this no chill method can i put the wort straight into the fermenter from the boil and then put the fermenter in the fridge? Or even just leave it out, sealed overnight? And then once its down to yeast temp just pitch?

Hi Fents,
That will work however it would be an advantage to fermentation to transfer the wort after cooling from one vessel to the fermenter via the tap to create a lot of splashing so as to introduce some oxygen into the wort.
Wort that has been left to cool by standing will have little oxygen and may result in a poor fermentation.
Cheers and good brewing,

 

[Ross]

Hupnupnee,

Doesn't possibly explain it if the porter had the same strange taste, but cooling unsealed with just some alfoil is not going to keep wild yeast etc at bay. As the wort cools, air will be sucked into the fermenter & you're asking for trouble - especially during the cooling of the evening when air bourne contaminants tend to fall back to ground level. This is not such a risk if storing inside, but if you're outside like I am, then it could be a real problem. Murky brews not clearing with strange off tastes, is a common condition of wild yeast contamination, to which I've lost a couple of worts to, on windy days...

cheers Ross

 

[andrewg]

I've slowly been reading through the huge number of posts on the no chill method and am very tempted to retire my immersion chiller (esp with the current water restrictions).
One thing I am still unclear on - it is ok to have a bit of space above the wort or should the cube should be full to the brim? If there is some space/air gap does this result in poorer quality beer due to some oxidation of the wort prior to fermentation?
cheer
HStB

 

[DJR]

I've slowly been reading through the huge number of posts on the no chill method and am very tempted to retire my immersion chiller (esp with the current water restrictions).
One thing I am still unclear on - it is ok to have a bit of space above the wort or should the cube should be full to the brim? If there is some space/air gap does this result in poorer quality beer due to some oxidation of the wort prior to fermentation?
cheer
HStB

Just squeeze it out - put some gloves or a t-shirt between you and the hot jerry can, squeeze it against something, tighten the cap and there you go, no headspace is optimal for long storage times but for an overnight chill some headspace is acceptable. I've done 10 no-chill brews now, with some headspace, and no problems yet.

 

[Ken Man Do]

You know, if you put an airlock with a sanitizer soaked cotton ball on your container, you don't have to worry about vacuums, crushing, or infections. Can you rig up such a thing on these jerry cans?

 

[DJR]

You know, if you put an airlock with a sanitizer soaked cotton ball on your container, you don't have to worry about vacuums, crushing, or infections. Can you rig up such a thing on these jerry cans?

Drill a hole into the cap, fit a grommet, put airlock in, away you go.

 

[devo]

is the APA a bit soapy?

Nope, not at all.

 

[Blackfish]

I've slowly been reading through the huge number of posts on the no chill method and am very tempted to retire my immersion chiller (esp with the current water restrictions).
One thing I am still unclear on - it is ok to have a bit of space above the wort or should the cube should be full to the brim? If there is some space/air gap does this result in poorer quality beer due to some oxidation of the wort prior to fermentation?
cheer
HStB

Just squeeze it out - put some gloves or a t-shirt between you and the hot jerry can, squeeze it against something, tighten the cap and there you go, no headspace is optimal for long storage times but for an overnight chill some headspace is acceptable. I've done 10 no-chill brews now, with some headspace, and no problems yet.

I am so pumped! After sweating over how to save up for all that annealed copper, along come you guys saying ya dont need it!

Hoo ray!!

Can You leave it in the kettle overnight and then rack straight to a fermentor the next day? Is low headspace or storage the only reason for going to the cube?

 

[DJR]

Some people no-chill in their kettle, personally i think it's a bit unclean to do it that way, but plenty of people do it. You can semi-submerge the kettle into a bath or laundry tub for quite a quick chill too.

 

[sluggerdog]

I will be brewing my first double batch on the weekend which will be a no-chill brew.

My question is in regards to the double batch, I am brewing a 40 litre brew (total - 30 + 10) with a 10 litre top up of water at the end and I plan to put the brew into 2 X 20 litre cubes.

My question is how/when should I do the topup? Should I add 5 litres to the bottom of each cube and then rack the hot wort ontop of each or should I add it afterwards or into the kettle once boil is complete (hard to not splash though) or should I no-chill the 30 litres and then simply add the 10 extra when ready to ferment?

I'm probably leaning towards this last way (like the fresh worts do) however I do not have a 30 litre cube, just 2 X 20 cubes.

Cheers
Cheers

 

[crozdog]

I will be brewing my first double batch on the weekend which will be a no-chill brew.

My question is in regards to the double batch, I am brewing a 40 litre brew (total - 30 + 10) with a 10 litre top up of water at the end and I plan to put the brew into 2 X 20 litre cubes.

My question is how/when should I do the topup? Should I add 5 litres to the bottom of each cube and then rack the hot wort ontop of each or should I add it afterwards or into the kettle once boil is complete (hard to not splash though) or should I no-chill the 30 litres and then simply add the 10 extra when ready to ferment?

I'm probably leaning towards this last way (like the fresh worts do) however I do not have a 30 litre cube, just 2 X 20 cubes.

Cheers
Cheers

Slugger,

I suggest that you play around with your volumes and post boil gravities so you end up with 2 x 20l cubes filled post boil at the required gravity or only needing a small water addition to get to your desired volume in the fermenter. beersmith & promash both have useful dilution tools to help with this. note this assumes you have the boiler volume to cope.

FWIW I do exactly this but with the ESB 15l cubes, I put around 17l @ 1058 in them to allow for dilution in the fermetner. Basically I make a smaller volume higher gravity brew which I no chill & dilute when I ferment - just like the fresh worts you buy :super: It is a little bit more brain work when planning your brew, but once done,, you just follow the recipe Remember the KISS principle.

Beers

Crozdog