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US05 vs S-04

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fletcher

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i don't understand why you're comparing an english strain to an american strain. they're completely different yeasts.
 

danestead

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fletcher said:
i don't understand why you're comparing an english strain to an american strain. they're completely different yeasts.
I believe he is doing it to notice the differences. I guess its like doing smash beers to get a feel for whatndifferent malts and hops bring to the table. I think its a great idea and there should be more of it.
 

TowelBoy2013

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Pratty1 said:
^ was that a blind test? Like you had someone else fill the glass and then you drank the and decided or did you know before you tasted them?
No. i tasted the US05 pitched beer on the Saturday and the s04 pitched beer on the Wednesday.
 

MHB

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fletcher said:
i don't understand why you're comparing an english strain to an american strain. they're completely different yeasts.
If you look up the history of S-05 you will find it's an English Ale yeast popular in US breweries.
It may have drifted a bit since the original, yeasts all do that in response to different environments, but that doesn't mean it was originally American, any more than all the other lager and wheat yeasts they have stuck their name on.
Mark
 

Vini2ton

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A wine-maker/vigneron I know once said to me," Most things from the USA are brash and over-stated." I often muse over these words when considering lots of stuff. But not yeast.
 

fletcher

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MHB said:
If you look up the history of S-05 you will find it's an English Ale yeast popular in US breweries.
It may have drifted a bit since the original, yeasts all do that in response to different environments, but that doesn't mean it was originally American, any more than all the other lager and wheat yeasts they have stuck their name on.
Mark
fair call, was just curious as to why he was comparing those two yeasts. i'm always happy to be educated more by knowledgeable people - particularly about yeasts.

if i were the OP, i would have personally compared 2 "american" strains, or "english" strains as i would have felt as though traits of said similar yeasts could be more closely compared; but i'm not and so i didn't, though i'm still happy to read his findings. :)
 

danestead

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fletcher said:
fair call, was just curious as to why he was comparing those two yeasts. i'm always happy to be educated more by knowledgeable people - particularly about yeasts.

if i were the OP, i would have personally compared 2 "american" strains, or "english" strains as i would have felt as though traits of said similar yeasts could be more closely compared; but i'm not and so i didn't, though i'm still happy to read his findings. :)
More on comparing strains: I compared wy1056 and wy1272 a couple of years ago and although I probably wouldn't do it again, it wasn't a waste of time. The 2 beers turned out very similar, with only very subtle differences.

I think it would be interesting, and I may do it one day, to compare wlp029 (kölsch), wy3711 (French saison), wy2308 (munich lager), wy1056 (american ale) and maybe one of the Belgian strains suited to a Belgian Blonde type beer. I've brewed the first three in that list and their malt and hop bills are very similar; however, the final product is quite different.

In the beginning when I was told that yeast is one of the dominant flavours in beer, I wasn't completely sold. Now that I've explored a far greater variety of those yeasts, I can happily say that yeast does have a huge impact on the flavour in your beer. I think it would surprise the general non-brewing public - not that they would get as excited about it as I do!
 

good4whatAlesU

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I've just tried out these two (05 and 04) on a stout, can agree with much of the above.
The 05 took it's time and left a bit of suspended precipitate.
The 04 went a lot faster and dropped out very quickly taking all the suspended matter with it to a dense trub.
I enjoyed the flavour of the 05, just kegged the 04 yesterday so I'll report back in a couple weeks. The green smelled a bit fruitier.. will see.
 

yankinoz

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Towelboy-

Report the results if you can include fermentation temps.


Among popular dry yeasts the choices for making an American style ale include the US strains US-05 and BRY-97, but also the English strain Nottingham if during the first few days of active fermentation you keep temps below 16. All attenuate well. Notty forms a very compact sediment, BRY-97 less so, while US-05 tends to leave an easily disturbed sediment, a slight drawback if you bottle, not if you keg.

For an English ale the choices among Danstar and Fermentis products are S-04, Windsor, Notty at higher temps. Few people like the results with Notty. On various forums you can find diverse opinions on the flavour left behind by S-04. After several years hiatus I just tried it again on an English Best Bitter. Okay, but I've had better luck with liquid English strains. Windsor produces a wonderful set of esters, but flocculation is slow and it leaves a beer sweet, especially if you mash high. Before I swear off dry yeasts for English ales I'm going to try a suggestion of Ross's and mix Windsor and Notty.

Mangrove Jack offers a variety of "English" dry yeasts. I haven't tried any of them.
 

TowelBoy2013

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yankinoz said:
Towelboy-

Report the results if you can include fermentation temps.


Among popular dry yeasts the choices for making an American style ale include the US strains US-05 and BRY-97, but also the English strain Nottingham if during the first few days of active fermentation you keep temps below 16. All attenuate well. Notty forms a very compact sediment, BRY-97 less so, while US-05 tends to leave an easily disturbed sediment, a slight drawback if you bottle, not if you keg.

For an English ale the choices among Danstar and Fermentis products are S-04, Windsor, Notty at higher temps. Few people like the results with Notty. On various forums you can find diverse opinions on the flavour left behind by S-04. After several years hiatus I just tried it again on an English Best Bitter. Okay, but I've had better luck with liquid English strains. Windsor produces a wonderful set of esters, but flocculation is slow and it leaves a beer sweet, especially if you mash high. Before I swear off dry yeasts for English ales I'm going to try a suggestion of Ross's and mix Windsor and Notty.

Mangrove Jack offers a variety of "English" dry yeasts. I haven't tried any of them.
for fermentation temps see reply #8
 

Gigantorus

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Anyone ever pitch both US-05 and S-04 together in a brew? Thinking of doing an amber ale and doing this and fermenting at 18C. Any do's or don'ts?
 

dannymars

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yankinoz said:
Avoid imo

I've had horrible problems with diacetyl with this yeast.... Trust that I know how to do a diacetyl rest etc etc, not crashing too soon etc... but I think you need to put in extra effort to avoid diacetyl when using this yeast.

ymmv
 

rude

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Coodgee said:
Few people like the results of notty? It's a pretty popular yeast.
Notty is a great yeast imho

Not sure what You mean few people like the results but it's popular
 

Kingy

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Brewman_ said:
As luck would have it...

I just knocked up a version of 150 Lashes off Brewbuilder.

Made a triple batch 78L.

I took two batches and pitched US05 in one and SO4 in the other. Both are at 20 Deg.C. ( So this is the upper limit recommended for S04.)
Both were oxygenated for 90 seconds.
It is now Day three. about the 75Hr mark

My observations so far.
1) SO4 Krausen was visible and the airlock was bubbling after 12Hrs The US05 batch had the same observation at around the 24Hr mark.
2) Now the fermentation is in full swing, both smell fine and look a little different. The SO4 now has no krausen, looks flat. The US05 has a foaming low Krause,
3) Gravity reading taken now. SO4 1010, (Expected FG) US05 1018 and still bubbling away.

Both taste and smell awesome.

I will continue to update. I added the quote above because I expect the exact opposite to your observations dannymars, except for the taste (Edit here, want to see the difference in taste, why I am doing these two batches), and that is what I am testing with these two batches.

As far as cloudiness goes, this is not a good beer, and probably irrelevant because I want cloudiness. But will update nonetheless

Cheers Steve
Any update on this Mr Brewman, I've just bottled and kegged a simple smash beer and saved a schooner of yeast cake (us-05) to put in an ordinary 4% English bitter. But I've got some s04 that I may use. I'm up in the air ATM lol.
 

good4whatAlesU

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good4whatAlesU said:
I've just tried out these two (05 and 04) on a stout, can agree with much of the above.
The 05 took it's time and left a bit of suspended precipitate.
The 04 went a lot faster and dropped out very quickly taking all the suspended matter with it to a dense trub.
I enjoyed the flavour of the 05, just kegged the 04 yesterday so I'll report back in a couple weeks. The green smelled a bit fruitier.. will see.
The 04 turned out a little watery and somewhat bland (a bit disappointed) compared to the 05. Both fermented at about 19 degrees C.
I'll be going back to an 05 for this recipe.
 

good4whatAlesU

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Well i had half a packet of 04 left so i chucked it in a leftovers batch (12L batch, 2kg of Ale malt) and its still fermenting 9 days later! Pretty much held 18/19 degrees the whole time.
I've never had a ferment go this long, I'm wondering if i under pitched or something?
 

GalBrew

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good4whatAlesU said:
Well i had half a packet of 04 left so i chucked it in a leftovers batch (12L batch, 2kg of Ale malt) and its still fermenting 9 days later! Pretty much held 18/19 degrees the whole time.
I've never had a ferment go this long, I'm wondering if i under pitched or something?
I find with s-04 that pitching a bit more is always a good thing. When 04 fires it will rip through a ferment and drop like a rock and prevent the dreaded 1.020 stall!
 

Vini2ton

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I was curious about S-04 after reading posts about it and having not used it since kit-daze. On the 5/9 I brewed 21 lts of 1.040 using golden promise, TF brown and Simp's med crystal. Pitched 1 sachet of S-04 rehydrated into 20 deg. Went off. Come 7/9 the air-lock stopped ( It's my fermenter and I'll airlock if I want too.) and I assumed the "1.020 stall" had manifested. On 8/9 I checked it and it had got down to 1.010. 12/9 it was 1.009 and I bottled the fucker. Samples tasted very nice. Similar experience with Windsor recently so if you reckon your up for it have a crack at any of them. The Windor beer is delish.
 

good4whatAlesU

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Yep same, first time I used it it took off. This time slow and 9 days later it's still chugging away.
Must admit though the first beer I made with it was not that great.
 
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