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US05 vs S-04

Discussion in 'Yeast' started by TowelBoy2013, 16/4/16.

 

  1. TowelBoy2013

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    Posted 16/4/16
    Doing these two safale strains side-by-side in a chocolate stout (16L US05, 4L S-04) batches, and noting differences. anyone else tried doing this? would be interesting to hear what the results are. cheers.
     
  2. Danscraftbeer

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    Posted 16/4/16
    It will be interesting to here what the result are so please do post them.
    There is more attempts posted than results on the internets I find.
     
  3. Danscraftbeer

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    Posted 16/4/16
    I've had plenty good results from US-05. Two fails I've had was the times I used S-04. It wimps out and doesn't do the job compared to US-05 that can kick arse on a very wide range.
    I guess S-04 is for a specialty odd stout maybe. I'm not interested in it when its weak.
     
  4. mstrelan

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    Posted 16/4/16
    Did you pitch a quarter of the amount in the smaller batch?
     
  5. GalBrew

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    Posted 17/4/16
    If you scroll down a bit through the recent posts there is a topic all about getting s-04 to ferment out. I like to think that s-04 tests all your brewing know how to get your beer fully fermented. Sure it keeps you on your toes, but you are rewarded with great flocculation at the end!
     
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  6. TowelBoy2013

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    Posted 21/4/16
    yes.
     
  7. Thefatdoghead

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    Posted 21/4/16
    I just watched an episode of chop and brew where Chris England talked about s-04 and over yeasting.
    He recommended pitching less than half a pack in a single batch of wort. Was concerned with stripping flavour in a rye coffee stout
     
  8. TowelBoy2013

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    Posted 13/5/16
    After 3 weeks fermenting i have racked both beers, both beers fermented around 18C-20C, both finished @ 1.012 i did notice however that the beer with the s04 strain did finish earlier than the US05 brew, but apart from that nothing really that different between the two. Will let both beers condition for 2-3 weeks and see how they both taste. cheers.
     
  9. dannymars

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    Posted 13/5/16
    I tried this last year with a Dr Smurto Golden Ale......

    Things I noticed...

    • S04 took longer to finish than US05
    • S04 was considerably cloudier than US05 version
    • S04 tasted more fruity (esters) than US05 version.

    At first I thought the US05 version was a superior drink. But as the kegs emptied I think I prefer the S04 version....
     
  10. GalBrew

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    Posted 13/5/16
    That's odd about the beer clarity. S-04 usually drops like a brick (especially compared to us-05) and gives you a very clear beer.
     
  11. Brewman_

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    Posted 13/5/16
    As luck would have it...

    I just knocked up a version of 150 Lashes off Brewbuilder.

    Made a triple batch 78L.

    I took two batches and pitched US05 in one and SO4 in the other. Both are at 20 Deg.C. ( So this is the upper limit recommended for S04.)
    Both were oxygenated for 90 seconds.
    It is now Day three. about the 75Hr mark

    My observations so far.
    1) SO4 Krausen was visible and the airlock was bubbling after 12Hrs The US05 batch had the same observation at around the 24Hr mark.
    2) Now the fermentation is in full swing, both smell fine and look a little different. The SO4 now has no krausen, looks flat. The US05 has a foaming low Krause,
    3) Gravity reading taken now. SO4 1010, (Expected FG) US05 1018 and still bubbling away.

    Both taste and smell awesome.

    I will continue to update. I added the quote above because I expect the exact opposite to your observations dannymars, except for the taste (Edit here, want to see the difference in taste, why I am doing these two batches), and that is what I am testing with these two batches.

    As far as cloudiness goes, this is not a good beer, and probably irrelevant because I want cloudiness. But will update nonetheless

    Cheers Steve
     
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  12. menoetes

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    Posted 13/5/16
    I use both fairly regularly; us-05 for American (and most of my Australian) style beers and s-04 for my British ales.

    My past experiences have shown that s-04 can tend to 'stick' just before finishing so I like to make a big starter or pitch onto the yeast cake of my last s-04 brew. Both generally mean I get a nice vigorous ferment, even at lower temps (as in <18'c). As Brewman has shown, good oxygenation is also important to get the most out of both these yeasts.

    I just love the esters S-04 gives me in my ESBs so I'm willing to go the extra mile to get it going.
     
  13. MHB

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    Posted 13/5/16
    For anything other than American ales, 04 has always been my go to dry yeast. Never had any problems with it (well other than once when I forgot to reset the temperature - not the yeasts fault). Never had any problems with 05 either, just don't find it attenuates, nor sediments as well, always leaves the beer a little sweet and bland. Both have their uses and the choice would depend on what you are looking for in the finished beer.

    Honestly I think the problems people report with both yeasts are more to do with the brewer than the yeast. All the dried yeast on the market preform well in a healthy wort, including 514 that cops an undeserved bagging, I doubt there is a better yeast for a faux Lager or light bodied low flavour beer (horses for courses).

    Seriously if you are having trouble with yeast preforming to specification take a long hard look at what you are feeding it.
    Mark
     
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  14. pcmfisher

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    Posted 14/5/16
    You want cloudiness?
    And how do you arrange it?
     
  15. Brewman_

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    Posted 16/5/16
    To get the cloudiness I using Wheat malt, or a mix of flaked wheat and flaked / rolled oats.
     
  16. TowelBoy2013

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    Posted 26/5/16
    Well after bottle conditioning for 2 weeks and leaving both beers to crash cool in the fridge for 5 days, after conducting a side-by-side taste-test i can confirm that there is a clear winner in my opinion when it comes to taste, mouthfeel and ability to put the malt forward in my stout and that is s04 easily, i will be using this strain from now on in all my dark beers. US05 i found left a somewhat bitter acidic note and didn't really show-case the malt character. I will say however that US05 did leave my beer with better head and head retention and slightly better lacing.
     
  17. Dan Pratt

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    Posted 26/5/16
    ^ was that a blind test? Like you had someone else fill the glass and then you drank the and decided or did you know before you tasted them?
     
  18. Reman

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    Posted 26/5/16
    Or better yet, do a triangle test (see brulosophy.com)
     
  19. peteru

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    Posted 26/5/16
    My preference is to use the 05 in beers where freshest is best - so heavily hopped aroma driven styles, such as US-style IPAs.

    The 04 works better with beers that improve with time, such as English bitters, porters, etc.

    But, in a pinch, either will do just fine, you just need to control the temperature to get them to do what you want.
     
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  20. Fraser's BRB

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    Posted 26/5/16
    I use both, as others have said, 05 for fresher more hop driven styles, my PA and Golden Ales. Use 04 for malt driven styles, ESB, stout, porter.

    Can you elaborate on using temp to achieve different results with the one yeast peteru? Most recipes I've brewed from have called for 18 or 19deg for either yeast?
     
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