Urn Vs Kettle & Burner

[tonydav]

I've had a good look and can't seem to find real opinions on this.

I'm tossing up between a 40L urn (Birko or Roband 3000W) and a Stockpot and burner. I'm intending to use it for PP's Brew in a Bag so hopefully 40L will be big enough for a full 22L result.

I'm sure a stockpot and burner will be quicker to heat but by how much? The costs seem much the same (at least if I go with an aluminium stockpot - much higher with a SS stockpot). Also, I'm sure I'd have better temperature control with the urn. Note that I'm looking at the 3000W urn with a 15A plug and not the 2400W.

tony

 

[James Squire]

Hi Tony,

In post #156 in this link you'll find some info on the 'all in one' method I currently use.

My 40L urn has only a 2400W element in it so I can't speak for the 3000W system, however, I need to use another 2400W immersion element in conjunction with the urn's element to acheive a good 'rolling' boil. Using the full volume mash method with NO sparge you can just squeeze 22L wort out of a batch using 5Kg of grain. By the time you factor in losses to grain, trub and displacement from the bucket and grain it is just acheivable.

I quite like my urn as a good piece of kit, the added bonus is that if I decide to move to a three vessel setup down the track then the Urn can remain as my HLT.

Hope this helps, Im happy to answer any more questions as I realise that my 'All in one' thread can be tedious to search through as it is quite long.

Regards,

JS

 

[Zizzle]

I plan on my rig being electric, using BIAB, but Pat is not a fan of the idea.

But I'm a system engineer and switching electricity is much easier to do from a computer for me, so it apeals.

Think computer controlled mash temps. Think mash water being heated before you wake. Nothing new here granted. Think putting the water, bag and grain into your urn the night before and waking up to yummy smelling mash that is ready to boil. Add an electric winch to remove your bag at the right time, and you are getting close to fully automated

 

[Kai]

My preferred setup would be an urn for a HLT and gas for the boil. When you're using 9kg bottles it means swapping/refills less often, no switching bottles/burners between vessels (if you have a simple setup like I do) and the option of preheating water on a timer.

 

[redbeard]

i have an electric 10amp hlt & a gas wok burner for the boiler. if u think u will go to ag, then a seperate hlt & burner is a good investment.

I managed the 1st few ag's using only a gas burner, a boiler & a small pot (15l) for batch sparging & esky as a tun.

 

[tonydav]

In post #156 in this link you'll find some info on the 'all in one' method I currently use.

My 40L urn has only a 2400W element in it so I can't speak for the 3000W system, however, I need to use another 2400W immersion element in conjunction with the urn's element to acheive a good 'rolling' boil. Using the full volume mash method with NO sparge you can just squeeze 22L wort out of a batch using 5Kg of grain. By the time you factor in losses to grain, trub and displacement from the bucket and grain it is just acheivable.

I quite like my urn as a good piece of kit, the added bonus is that if I decide to move to a three vessel setup down the track then the Urn can remain as my HLT.

Hope this helps, Im happy to answer any more questions as I realise that my 'All in one' thread can be tedious to search through as it is quite long.

Thanks for that. Was the sort of info I was after. I was wondering if I'd be able to get away without an immersion heater, but sounds unlikely even with the extra heating power in the 3000W urn. I was also a little concerned about the size as I'd been thinking at least 50L stockpot and probably an 80L one given the small difference in price. Sounds like 40L will do the job but only just.

tony

P.S. I have read about half the long "all in one" thread but given the way it's been evolving I've been trying to read it through from start to finish. Almost like a good book seing new ideas invented and tried.

 

[James Squire]

Glad I could help Tony,

The urn boils fine but just not vigourously enough to form a good hot break.

Good to hear of someone else that may be turning to the 'all in one' method for a start to AG! I can highly reccomend it as a worthy method, it produces 'top notch' beers in my opinion.

On the weekend just gone I took a bottle to Berazafi's house for another AG brewers opinion and he rated it quite highly (thanks Dave!) He suggested it may have done well in a comp too. Im happy with that feedback, especially as the beer in question was one from the first batch I brewed with this method. I will try to get some 'all in one' brews to a comp sometime for some proffesional opinions.

Good luck and good beers Tony,

JS

Edit- With the two 2400W elements going for me it takes 10-15mins to reach a boil from mash temps. Id suggest it would take far too long for the urn alone to reach boiling. Sorry, I forgot to post that!

 

[Justin]

Unless you happen to find a suitable urn cheap at a garage sale etc that was a suitable size, I wouldn't spend the money on buying a new urn for this purpose.

JMHO but I really think you would be better served with a good sized pot and burner combo as you mentioned (might as well make it 60L+). I think before to long the urn would choke you for size and would just be a poor compromise. If you get it cheap, sure but if it's a new purchase I think the money would be better spent elsewhere.

A good pot is far more adaptable for a range of purposes and you can always integrate it into any future expansions. No brewer would be without a good kettle, so you might as well get the right one first go. Get that part and the rest can just falls cheaply into place as opportunity presents itself.

Cheers, Justin

 

[Jazzafish]

i have an electric 10amp hlt & a gas wok burner for the boiler. if u think u will go to ag, then a seperate hlt & burner is a good investment.

I agree 100%.

At the moment I use my intended fermenter as a HLT with a hand held element. It will take up to an hour max to heat 30 litres of water to mash/sparge temps. I also have a gas burner that boils my wort, and the element is used to speed things up. Best of both worlds.

At the moment I plug the element into a thermostat to control my heating to the degree for strike temperatures. I also use one of those cheap timers to turn the power on and start heating while I'm sleeping...

My Rough Brew Day
07:00am Mash in (water waiting at desired temperature)
07:05am Top up Sparge water and reset thermostat to sparge temps
07:10am Back to bed with the Mrs
08:40am Sparge
09:40am Boil and sanitise/sterilize
10:40am Chill or Cube wort
11:00am Clean up and pitch yeast if I bothered chilling the wort.

Keep in mind this can be done with a Urn, but I find using my fermenter, element and thermostat cheaper.

Another point to be made... have a good look at your power meter tick over while running an all electric system! If you want an automated system, I recon a gas set up with a thermostat is the go... like a gas oven.

 

[tonydav]

Thanks guys for all your help. I know I'm being a bit of a pain with all these continual questions but given the cost of some of these items I'd prefer not to stuff it up from the start by wasting too much money.

Only one question left (I think) - Aluminium vs SS Kettle

tony