Trough Lolly Porter

[Trough Lolly]

As a result of doing some web research and getting some sage advice from other forumites, I have scratched together a porter recipe. Please feel free to review, comment and make suggestions.

No swearing please - it's my first recipe!!

Trough Lolly Porter

Style: Robust Porter
Type: Extract w/grain

OG: 1.056
FG: 1.016
Vol: 23 Litres

Expected Alcohol: 5.1% v/v (4.0% w/w) - Possibly a bit low for a robust porter...?
Expected Colour: 35 HCU (~17 SRM)
Expected Bitterness: 28 IBU - Possibly a bit high?

Boil Volume: 10 Litres
Final Volume: 23 Litres

Grain Bill:
650g German Munich (1.9 HCU)
500g American Crystal 120L (21.8 HCU)

(Based on a steeping efficiency of 65%)

Boil (10 Litres):
1.25Kg Amber Malt Extract (6.3 HCU)
2Kg Liquid LME (4.4 HCU)
150g Brown Sugar (0.8 HCU)

(SG for boil is 1.128)

Hop Bill:
50g Fuggles (5% AA) for 60 Mins (13.6 IBUs)
50g EKG (5% AA) for 30 Mins (10.5 IBUs)
25g Fuggles (5% AA) for 15 Mins (3.4 IBUs)

Hop utilisation based on Tinseth Method

Yeast: London Ale 1028 @ 20C

So there you go - a porter for Xmas? The only other thing I was considering was to follow Jayse's lead and toss in some black malt in lieu of the brown sugar - I guess I'll have to brew one of each and see how they compare

Cheers,

TL

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

Got any chocolate malt to add to that recipe? It is a must in a Porter but having said that I reckon yours will be fine. Have you got a small esky you can mash the Munich and crystal malts in?
I brewed a porter(not robust) which was extract based and it did well in the SA comp. The extract/grain bill was as follows:

3kgs LME
500g Crystal
300g Chocolate
100g Black

Hopped with Northern Brewer for IBU of 35ish.

The chocolate adds a great velvety complexity (sounds like **** but it is a nice drop)

TDA

 

[jayse]

the 28 ibu won't be too much at all actually hardly even noticable with all that.so don't be afraid to go for 35 ibu.

i can't comment on the use of brown sugar i have never used it.
but looking at it i would swap it for 250g of choc malt or 150 black malt.without the choc i think the dark crystal would rule this brew.after all if any flavours stand out more than any others it should be choc/coffee type flavours.but porter should be malty and complex with no one stand out flavour.

iam hanging too try one 1/3 pale malt 1/3 amber malt and 1/3 brown malt which from my research is pretty close too how they used to do it years ago.
i'll just toast some pale till i get amber malt then take some out and toast the rest untill i get brown malt.

hope that helps
cheers jayse

 

[GSRman]

I thought a robust porter should have more roasty flavours.. i would think you would need some black/roast malt in there... and also some chocolate malt..


for some reason i don't think yours will come out as dark as you anticipate...

 

[RobW]

iam hanging too try one 1/3 pale malt 1/3 amber malt and 1/3 brown malt which from my research is pretty close too how they used to do it years ago.
i'll just toast some pale till i get amber malt then take some out and toast the rest untill i get brown malt.

Jayse

any tips on toasting malt? I'd like to make some brown malt but not sure of the best way to go about it

 

[jayse]

to make your own brown malt.

use a oven tray like one used to cook biscuits.
place 2 row pale malt to about 1/2 inch deep.

heat oven to 100c and place malt in the oven for 40 minutes.
after 40 minutes raise heat to 145c and leave for another 60 mins.
this stage now is the amber malt.
for brown malt raise oven up to 175c for another 35 mins.

i have never done it yet myself but these are the instructions i have to do it.the temps and times aren't exact so 5c and 5 mins either side of each is fine.just don't ever go over 200c.

 

[Murray]

I've had the instructions for this for awhile, but have never gotten around to doing it. I think I have notes on retaining some enzymes for the amber malt as well.

 

[RobW]

Thanks Jayse

 

[Boots]

I actually just bought a Jovial Monk "Robust Porter" kit. He seperates the ingredients of his kits and list what in there (I can't remember amounts exactly but ....)

1KG Pale Malt Extract
250g (or 350g) Choc malt - steeped in a bowl of water overnight
250g (or 500g?) Wheat Malt Extract
Fuggles Hops for bittering and flavour

On the kit it says to use with a can of Nut Brown Hopped Extract + a can of LME. He suggested something a little different and I went with:

1 x 1.7kg Coopers Draught Hopped Extract
1 x 1.5kg Coopers Amber Malt Extract (liquid) Can

I'm looking forward to it because I tried a pint of James Squire Porter the other week and absolutely loved it (first ever try of a porter)

Before now my only experience had been stout and lemonade :lol:

 

[GMK]

Trough Lolly

For your Porter i would keep the brown sugar - but make sure it is Dark Brown Sugar.

Add the following:
200 gms Choc Malt
100 Black malt

Optional but really adds velvety complexities and a very nice taste - 100gms of Dark Cooking Chocolate added in the boil.

I hate Fuggles - but each to there own - can swap Fuggles for Nth Brewer/Pearle.
Dry hop with EKG, Nth Brewer or Pearle.

Hope this helps.

 

[Trough Lolly]

Thanks everyone for the great advice and tips... I have made some adjustments to the recipe and they are highlighted below in red...

Trough Lolly Porter - Version 2!
Style: Robust Porter
Type: Extract w/grain

OG: 1.062
FG: 1.016
Vol: 23 Litres

Expected Alcohol: 5.9% v/v (4.6% w/w)
Expected Colour: 75 HCU (~29 SRM)
Expected Bitterness: 28 IBU

Boil Volume: 10 Litres
Final Volume: 23 Litres

Grain Bill:
650g German Munich (1.9 HCU)
400g American Crystal 120L (17.4 HCU)
200g British Chocolate (34.5 HCU)

Sounds like the UN with the German, Yank and Pommie grains!!
(Based on a steeping efficiency of 65%)

Boil (10 Litres):
2Kg Amber Malt Extract (10.2 HCU)
1Kg Liquid LME (2.2 HCU)
250g Brown Sugar (1.4 HCU)
500g Dark Malt Extract (7.3 HCU)
(SG for boil is 1.142)

Hop Bill:
65g Fuggles or Northern Brewer (5% AA) for 60 Mins (15.7 IBUs)
50g EKG (5% AA) for 30 Mins (9.3 IBUs)
25g EKG (5% AA) for 15 Mins (3.0 IBUs)

Hop utilisation based on Tinseth Method

Yeast: London Ale 1028 @ 20C

For all the Mash Maestro's out there - what would be the ideal mash method for the grains? Small esky, or pot with towels, heaps of water (7 Litres of 65C????) and 3L to sparge?? Any sage advice gratefully received!!

Cheers,

TL

(Hope to brew this in the next week or two - once I have cleared up some space that is currently occupied by a Bavarian Lager!).

 

[Trough Lolly]

Update:

Put this sucker down yesterday. Final recipe that I worked on, for those interested in a extract with grain robust porter, is as follows:
Trough Lolly Porter (TLP)
500g Carahell
500g CaraMunich
500g Pale Crystal
200g Pale Choc Xtal
120g Carafa Special I
250g CSR Dark Brown Sugar
1 x Coopers Old Dark Ale Kit
1 Kg Amber LME
500g Dark LME

40g Nthn Brewer 10% (60mins)
30g EKG 6.3% (45mins)
30g EKG (Dry Hop in Secondary)

300ml 1028 London Ale yeast starter

I thought I could get away with steeping all those grains in 4L and sparging with another 3L at 70C - WRONG! I ended up using 2 x stock pots and had 8L on the steep with another 3L to sparge the grains with. I used a few cloth grain bags and found that they were more hinderance than help. Next time I will sparge in one stock pot and transfer/strain/sparge the grains into the other stock pot which will be the boiler. Not doing full boils - pots only hold about 15L and I only fill to 10L which gives me good headspace when I have a rolling boil happening.

To get acceptable hop oil extraction efficiency, I didn't add the kit and sugar until the end of the 1hr boil and let them sit in the boiler for 5mins to pasteurise before chilling. Yeast starter was pitched at 22C.

SG was 1.058 which was a bit lower than the 1.062 that I had planned for out of the 23L wort - I think I lost a few brewers degrees in the ****** ad-hoc sparge that I did so I will note that down for next time.

Colour is a deep dark brown - not black - with a hint of ruby in it - this brew looks so rich and wicked - I had to taste the gravity sample - yum, it had raisins, coffee, everything that is bad in the world was waiting to get mixed with alcohol!

The 1028 starter was going off like a frog in a sock in less than 8 hours - this morning (approx 12hrs after sealing fermenter) it is bubbling vigorously and I have a 2 inch Krausen already! I hope the rest of the 3L 1028 starter I made and put into stubbies earlier that day are not gonna do the same in the fridge! :huh:

One week in primary, rack off the hops and yeast cake for cold conditioning and dry hopping with EKG before I bottle - I can't wait to try it out but I have to make room for a partial mash LCPA clone that I developed on the recipator...

Cheers,
TL :chug:

 

[wessmith]

Trough Lolly,

You have a slightly confused grain bill here. Carahell and Pale Crystal are one and the same. Most European crystal malts are called cara(something) and "hell" in German means light or pale. Pale Chocolate and Carafa Special 1 are also one and the same colour wise except that all the Weyermann Carafa SPECIAL grains are dehusked before roasting and develop less astringency. Caramunich is crystal. BTW Pale Chocolate is NOT a crystal malt - merely a roasted malt.

To get the colour you want, drop the Pale crystal and just go with 500gm Carafa Special 1 or a good 900 EBC Chocolate malt like Joe White or Thomas Fawcett.

Wes.

 

[Trough Lolly]

Wes,
Thanks for the reply - happy to accept advice from all quarters - but may I digress...I was not totally specific in my grain bill. I find that the Weyermann Carahell that I used was different in flavour to the Barrett and Burston Pale Crystal. I know that this may not result in a distinct set of flavours and complexity in a robust porter, but decided that I liked both crystals and thought that I would add a bit of each - to me, anyway, they are different. I like the B&B Pale Crystal in my Bavarian Lagers - but will experiment with some Caramunich in lieu, next time. Yes they are pale, but they are not the same colour - come over and have a look at the two in suspension if you have any doubts. The carahell was about 30EBC whereas the batch of pale crystal I had was about 50-60EBC

Now I must say that Pale Chocolate and Carafa Special I ARE NOT the same colour. Yes the special is dehusked, but the Carafa is a lot darker than the Pale Chocolate, hence my reluctance to use more than 120g of it in this brew. In fact, my original recipe had none of it and after taking on board the sage advice from other more experienced brewers, I modified my recipe and added some - I'm glad I did.

I didn't want to much dryness or an excessive coffee note in the wort and hence only used a relatively small amount of Carafa - I will consider beefing up the choc malt next time, but I think half a kilo of Carafa Special in a 23L batch may be a bit excessive for my tastebuds! Anyway, I'll see how this pans out and will adjust where necessary next time.

Cheers,
TL

 

[wessmith]

Hi TL,

Definitely some confusion at this end as well! The BBM "Light Crystal" will almost certainly be their Caramalt and that certainly will be up in the 50's or 60's in colour. Also much higher in body as it is used primarily in lagers as a "body builder".

Pale Choc and Carafa 1 are not the same colour - must have beena brain fart on my part. Chocolate and Carafaf 1 (special or standard) are about the same colour ie 800-900 EBC.

Also my closing para should have read "drop the pale chocolate" - not the pale crystal.

too many hefe's methinks...

Wes.