Transporting wort from a brew day

[Nizmoose]

Okay so I'm getting a mate into homebrewing and he is lacking some of the equipment I have but I dont want that to prevent him from getting into the hobbie. We want to be doing some full extract brews for him using my burner and pot as well as a few all grain batches with my gear which we might do double volume and split. My question is how should we get his portion back to his place? Is it best to chill at mine, chuck in the fermenter then drive it home before pitching at home (the drive would do a bit of aerating probably if anything). Or should we chill get it into the fermenter, pitch the yeast then send him on his way? Or are neither of these the way to go? I know no-chill would be many people's suggestion but I'd rather not complicate things for him and don't feel like going the no chill pathway quite yet.
Cheers

 

[TimT]

Best would really be just to keep his brew at your place too - why complicate with moving in the first place? That said, get a cube, chuck it in, seal it up, and he can drive it back to his place straight away and pitch yeast when it's the right temp.

 

[MartinOC]

'Couplea thoughts:

1. No-chill is definitely the better way to go for transport... h34r:
2. If you chill after the boil, you'll want to get the yeastie-beasties in there ASAP, so pitch & despatch is better.
3. Ideally, his "transport" fermenter shouldn't have a tap fitted, as it's just too fragile & fraught with danger of spillage (you can decide which is worse - lost brew or a car filled with unfermented wort over summer.... :icon_vomit: )
4. If you get him hooked, then a second fermenter to be used as a secondary/bottling bucket (with tap) will be a good investment, but he'll need a racking hose etc.

$0.02

 

[Nizmoose]

Cheers guys solid points here

'Couplea thoughts:

1. No-chill is definitely the better way to go for transport... h34r:
2. If you chill after the boil, you'll want to get the yeastie-beasties in there ASAP, so pitch & despatch is better.
3. Ideally, his "transport" fermenter shouldn't have a tap fitted, as it's just too fragile & fraught with danger of spillage (you can decide which is worse - lost brew or a car filled with unfermented wort over summer.... :icon_vomit: )
4. If you get him hooked, then a second fermenter to be used as a secondary/bottling bucket (with tap) will be a good investment, but he'll need a racking hose etc.

$0.02

Assuming we go the pitch and go method is aeration for say 45 minutes whilst the yeast is pitched going to be an issue or will the yeast enjoy the aeration for a bit? I'm assuming the whole point of aeration before pitching is so that the yeast have enough O2 for a solid amount of time in order to reproduce (10-12 maybe even 24 hours?). I guess I'm asking where the point is where you want to go from trying to aerate the wort to trying to avoid splashing, we cut it off at pitching but I wonder if thats just a standard more than a rule.

On the fermenter side it's a plastic spring water cooler bottle thing, basically a plastic carboy so no tap and a good lid. Going to get him to get a 30L fermenter to use as a bottling bucket but at the moment he'll basically be replicating my fermenter set up which is 10L batches in the water containers and 30L fermenter for bottling with the odd 21L batch here and there.

Best would really be just to keep his brew at your place too - why complicate with moving in the first place? That said, get a cube, chuck it in, seal it up, and he can drive it back to his place straight away and pitch yeast when it's the right temp.

Now that may seem logical at first but think about it. Am I really going to get a guy who is really keen on homebrewing to make it here and leave it here!? I dont know about you but when I did my first few batches I LOVED checking up on my beer unneccesarily any spare moment I got. I'm not going to take that away from him haha

 

[manticle]

No chill is less complicated and safest for transport/storage of wort.

Otherwise chill, fill cube to the brim and accept the risk - get him to pitch as soon as he can. How far?

 

[antiphile]

It's the kid who's sitting in the corner wearing the tall pointy hat here.

The way I see it, since you're not doing "no chill", you'll have to cool it down some way anyway (chiller coil, plate chiller, whatever). Provided the hygeine rules are correctly followed (i.e. You StarSan the hell out of the container, lid etc), I'd go for putting it in a very strong container (a cube, a jerry can that's not been used for petrol etc) that you can trust not to leak or spill on the 45 min trip.

Personally, i wouldn't pitch the yeast until he got home, but I would leave a decent amount of headspace in there so it would aerate naturally on the trip home in the carefully driven car. IMHO, 45 mins is not going to be sufficient time for anything bad to happen if it's properly sealed. When he gets home, I'd rack it into another sanitised container to be used as the FV, and then pitch the yeast.

Just the thoughts of an empty and warped mind.

 

[manticle]

Why rack again? Pitch in the same container.

 

[antiphile]

G'day manticle

The reason I'd do that would be to put it in an FV with a tap. I fully agreed with the suggestion (and should have added that in post) that it shouldn't be moved with a tap in place, but I just figured (for me at least), it would be a PITA fermenting it without one.

[antiphile sings to himself: It's not easy being a klutz.]

 

[MartinOC]

Nizmoose,

If your mate only has a short trip home, there's no problem at all with chilling/aerating & pitching all whilst at your place, even with a sealed container. The yeast's initial lag-phase is when it starts taking-up oxygen, so the container won't be under pressure.

In the early stages, there's no problem at all with LOTS of aeration (more the better). Unless you're pitching swags of fresh yeast (ie,. from a previous batch) & there's a long trip home for your mate, it will all be fine. We're talking several hours here, even for fresh yeast with lots of aeration, in a sealed container.

 

[Nizmoose]

Awesome replies here guys thanks. Not concerned about pressure build up although I'll admit that's because I didn't even think of it haha. He is about a 25 minute drive away from me (I said 45 because I always say 45 because it feels far away but realistically im whingeing) so not too far and we'd be pitching more than likely a washed yeast starter :/ but can switch that to packets if that would be recommended.

On the tap issue I have been fermenting in a non-tapped vessel and was originally thinking I'd be hating life and didn't know how the Americans could handle it with their bloody carboys, but since doing 4 10L batches in non-tapped vessels I've found it to be a non issue, I check gravity as it goes into the fermenter, I let it ferment for almost three weeks and then check the gravity on say day 17, then check on day 19 and if the same chuck her in the fridge. I use a siphon (suck some up holding the top bit to seal then push it back through the bottom into the tube) to get the sample in a hydro tube. Its a bit shit but not as bad as it sounds or I thought. So if the only real issue with a non-tapped vessel is the lack of a tap then no worries there.

I'm surprised at the amount of concern given I thought group brew days were commonplace? Having said that concern is better than ruined beer!

 

[manticle]

Group brewdays are common and the no chill method is commonly used.

 

[hotmelt]

If you don't want to no chill a whole batch you could put a couple of litres of hot wort into a cube to sanitise the inside while your chilling the rest of the wort,then fill and cap it and transport.

 

[MartinOC]

I'm surprised at the amount of concern given I thought group brew days were commonplace? Having said that concern is better than ruined beer!

RDWHAHB!!!

 

[squirt in the turns]

What's the reason for your aversion to no-chill, Nizmoose? No-chill is awesome, for a whole heap of reasons that have been documented repeatedly on this forum and elsewhere. Whether you chill or not, your friend probably needs to get a more convenient fermenter. Presumably he'll need that 30 L fermenter to siphon into (which is more complicated for him than no-chill, surely) to bottle his first batch anyway? Whether you chill or not, just get him to get an HDPE jerry can, or better yet a cube, either of which can be used for no-chill, although the jerry cans sometimes don't seal all that well, in my experience.

If you have to chill, pitch immediately. With a jerry or cube, put a bung in the tap hole, screw the lid on tight and it's good for transport. As others have said, pressure won't be an issue until fermentation really starts up. Then, when your mate gets home, he turns the cube/jerry its side, removes the bung, installs the tap, turns the FV upright again and cracks the lid slightly to allow CO2 to escape. Bottle straight from primary.

 

[technobabble66]

Umm... am i missing something here?
Why can't he just stick it into the crappy spring water vessel (if that's all he's got, poor cheap *******) after it's chilled, pitch in the yeast when it's at the right temp (25°C, though i kinda prefer more like 20°C myself), stick the vessel in his mate's car, firmly secured, then his mate drives home and places it in some appropriate posse (and loosens the lid!). Job done!
What's wrong with this?

I would've thought the issue is 1) infection of wort; and 2) aeration of wort.
Re: 1) ... Over 25mins, neither should be a problem either way.
But to be on the safe side and so Nizm can oversee the grand Pitching of the Yeast, do it all at Chez Niz. Also Niz can lead his mate thru the rehydration process of the yeast (Well, if that doesn't derail the thread...).
For 2), i don't think it will make any difference at all whether the yeast is pitched or not. Maybe to make it more secure, ensure the vessel is completely full, but then he wouldn't be able to ferment in it without head space.

Afterwards his mate can stop being a cheap ******* and commit to his new religion by buying a proper cube with a proper tap, for some proper no-chilling and proper transport.

Can someone explain why the simplest option will be detrimental for this first run of theirs?
Oh, i guess option B (def better) would be if his mate buys/has a proper fermenter with a proper tap, then transport it in the spring water vessel and pour it into the FV, followed by the yeast, but i assume this is not an option due to an, as yet, uncommitted mate.

 

[siege]

:icon_offtopic: I wouldn't get hung up on the value of a tap on the FV. The last time I jammed a pvc pipe into the tap I noticed a stream of tiny bubbles through my beer as soon as I started emptying it out! Suffice to say I stopped it straight away and have been using a racking cane for the last few brews.

Has anyone else found a shite seal in these taps causing oxygenation?

 

[Nizmoose]

Umm... am i missing something here?
Why can't he just stick it into the crappy spring water vessel (if that's all he's got, poor cheap *******) after it's chilled, pitch in the yeast when it's at the right temp (25°C, though i kinda prefer more like 20°C myself), stick the vessel in his mate's car, firmly secured, then his mate drives home and places it in some appropriate posse (and loosens the lid!). Job done!
What's wrong with this?

I would've thought the issue is 1) infection of wort; and 2) aeration of wort.
Re: 1) ... Over 25mins, neither should be a problem either way.
But to be on the safe side and so Nizm can oversee the grand Pitching of the Yeast, do it all at Chez Niz. Also Niz can lead his mate thru the rehydration process of the yeast (Well, if that doesn't derail the thread...).
For 2), i don't think it will make any difference at all whether the yeast is pitched or not. Maybe to make it more secure, ensure the vessel is completely full, but then he wouldn't be able to ferment in it without head space.

Afterwards his mate can stop being a cheap ******* and commit to his new religion by buying a proper cube with a proper tap, for some proper no-chilling and proper transport.

Can someone explain why the simplest option will be detrimental for this first run of theirs?
Oh, i guess option B (def better) would be if his mate buys/has a proper fermenter with a proper tap, then transport it in the spring water vessel and pour it into the FV, followed by the yeast, but i assume this is not an option due to an, as yet, uncommitted mate.

Haha not being a cheap ******* might be an option! Looks like my options are far and wide, as they say ask 5 brewers how they do something...., judging from the responses I think I'll see what he prefers and we'll make sure to get everything sanitised as possible

 

[Nizmoose]

What's the reason for your aversion to no-chill, Nizmoose? No-chill is awesome, for a whole heap of reasons that have been documented repeatedly on this forum and elsewhere. Whether you chill or not, your friend probably needs to get a more convenient fermenter. Presumably he'll need that 30 L fermenter to siphon into (which is more complicated for him than no-chill, surely) to bottle his first batch anyway? Whether you chill or not, just get him to get an HDPE jerry can, or better yet a cube, either of which can be used for no-chill, although the jerry cans sometimes don't seal all that well, in my experience.

If you have to chill, pitch immediately. With a jerry or cube, put a bung in the tap hole, screw the lid on tight and it's good for transport. As others have said, pressure won't be an issue until fermentation really starts up. Then, when your mate gets home, he turns the cube/jerry its side, removes the bung, installs the tap, turns the FV upright again and cracks the lid slightly to allow CO2 to escape. Bottle straight from primary.

Yeah I might have to consider no chill an option. To be completely honest my only real aversion to no chill is that I haven't ever done it (which is no good reason) and I therefore don't know the effects of hopping and how the hell you no chillers avoid haze when I thought chilling quickly was partially to reduce haze? Anyway thats a different topic I'm sure. Like I said above I'll see what we find easiest and go from there. as technobable said if hes committed to this fiine hobby I'm sure we'll end up experimenting with lots of different vessels and methods, might try the fermenter without tap, capped and pitched and no chill and see what works best. Cheers for all the opinions and info guys. Seems that as usual as long as everything is clean and sanitary it shouldnt be too much of an issue!

 

[TheWiggman]

I've put wort straight into a fermenter before, secured it to a corner of the ute (tap and all), and driven it home. No issues.
Other brews I've given to others were no chill. I've managed to convert them so now they have their own cube the same as mine, and we do a swapsies full for empty. All he needed were his own stockings but strangely this wasn't an issue for him.
Come to the dark side and make this your first no chill. The two brew I did for one bloke were enough to make him realise that good beer can be made at home, and he just bought himself some 80l pots for double batches.

 

[Nizmoose]

I've put wort straight into a fermenter before, secured it to a corner of the ute (tap and all), and driven it home. No issues.
Other brews I've given to others were no chill. I've managed to convert them so now they have their own cube the same as mine, and we do a swapsies full for empty. All he needed were his own stockings but strangely this wasn't an issue for him.
Come to the dark side and make this your first no chill. The two brew I did for one bloke were enough to make him realise that good beer can be made at home, and he just bought himself some 80l pots for double batches.

yeah for 17 bucks a cube it sure is tempting. I wont ask about your mates abundance of accessible stockings. Looks like I might be able to use my mate as a no chill guinea pig!