Traditional Cask Conditioned English Bitter

[Hefty]

After this sort of conditioning only the residual CO2 remains. What it also means is that the cask will draw air in from the cellar and in around 5-7 days the beer will spoil. (Some non-CAMRA approved pubs use a blanket CO2 system which buys them several weeks of sale time but upsets greatly the bearded trainspotters).

Thanks WildebeestAttack.
If I get a system like this working I might try to go the traditional "CAMRA approved" type of option for parties where the whole batch would be finished quickly but for my own consumption I'll probably have to add a squirt of co2 every now and then.
I figure that by the time I can afford a beer engine, I will also have been able to afford a kegging system

Cheers!
Jono.

 

[JonnyAnchovy]

However I'm really looking forward to a couple of hand pumped pints in Glebe next week :icon_drool2:

Where in Glebe hand pumps?

 

[AndrewQLD]

I spent 12 months as a head brewer of a micro in the UK, so can offer so advice.

All our cask ales were carbonated in the cask (probably to about what a cube can handle, although it would be touch and go) for about two weeks before going out to trade. What makes it low carbonation when serving is down to the cellar master in the pub who uses a spile to condition the cask prior to serving. (Basically a piece of cane is punctured into the shive - the bung on the top of the cask - to allow the CO2 to escape). Depending on the beer type and how lively it is, this may take anywhere from 12 to 48 hours. After this sort of conditioning only the residual CO2 remains. What it also means is that the cask will draw air in from the cellar and in around 5-7 days the beer will spoil. (Some non-CAMRA approved pubs use a blanket CO2 system which buys them several weeks of sale time but upsets greatly the bearded trainspotters).

If you want to have an English style ale, served off the stillage so to speak, you would need to allow it to carbonate then vent off the CO2 before pouring. I know the Wheatsheaf in Adelaide basically does this when using their beer engine (Coopers Stout from a beer engine is as good as the best real ale you will find in the UK).

Some nice info, thanks.

Do you by any chance know what pressure the ales are carbonated to in the cask before they are sent to the pubs?

Cheers
Andrew

 

[quantocks]

Where in Glebe hand pumps?

Nags Head in Glebe

 

[Paul H]

.........but upsets greatly the bearded trainspotters.

What a description of CAMRA members. I have a friend who is heavily into trains & was heavily into beer who loved his trips to the UK, now I know why :icon_cheers:

 

[JonnyAnchovy]

Nags Head in Glebe

I'm leaving work now.....

 

[WildebeestAttack]

Some nice info, thanks.

Do you by any chance know what pressure the ales are carbonated to in the cask before they are sent to the pubs?

Cheers
Andrew

Generally the casks were carbonated to around 2 vols. Anything higher and we had trouble with impatient landlords (and sometimes cellars where beer had squirted everywhere - the Timothy Taylor Landlord has a reputation for been quite lively). Our stout we kept a little lower, golden ales a little higher. At serving I guess they would be under 1 vol.

 

[JonnyAnchovy]

Do you think one could fake the real ale effect by depressurising their keg set up when its not in use, and only gass it up to dispensing pressure when its time to serve it? Using cellarmix would probably also help avoid overgassing.....

blasphemous, I know. And no where as aesthetically appealing as a beer engine....

this is what I'm planning on doing when I finally get set up.

Nothing I hate more than over carbonated ale. In fact, I rarely drink anything fizzy, alcoholic or otherwise.

 

[WildebeestAttack]

Do you think one could fake the real ale effect by depressurising their keg set up when its not in use, and only gass it up to dispensing pressure when its time to serve it? Using cellarmix would probably also help avoid overgassing.....

blasphemous, I know. And no where as aesthetically appealing as a beer engine....

this is what I'm planning on doing when I finally get set up.

Nothing I hate more than over carbonated ale. In fact, I rarely drink anything fizzy, alcoholic or otherwise.

I'd imagine to fake the real ale effect you could simply allow the beer to carbonate in the keg, then depressurise (say leave open the pressure relief valve) at cellar temp (around 10C). Then you could serve it up through your keg system with the reg set at a low pressure. You wont quite get the same soft carbonation, or the added oxygen that a beer engine provide, but it would be around the mark.

Shame you don't like the fizzy stuff - never tell a Belgian that!

 

[Hefty]

I'd imagine to fake the real ale effect you could simply allow the beer to carbonate in the keg, then depressurise (say leave open the pressure relief valve) at cellar temp (around 10C). Then you could serve it up through your keg system with the reg set at a low pressure. You wont quite get the same soft carbonation, or the added oxygen that a beer engine provide, but it would be around the mark.

What is the benefit of the added oxygen?
I know that in the long run it leads to oxidisation and spoilage but does it do something positive at serving?

Cheers!
Jono.

 

[WildebeestAttack]

What is the benefit of the added oxygen?
I know that in the long run it leads to oxidisation and spoilage but does it do something positive at serving?

Cheers!
Jono.

Adding the oxygen seems to soften the taste of the beer. When you try a beer from the stillage and from a beer engine side by side it can be quite a pronounced difference. A lot depends on how the beer is poured and how conditioned the beer is also. It is similar to comparing a freshly opened bottle of wine to one that has been in a decanter for a while.

 

[buttersd70]

My Granda' used to say "it knocks t'bloody corners off't".
If there was no sparkler (or a weak head), he wouldn't drink it...

 

[Hefty]

Adding the oxygen seems to soften the taste of the beer. When you try a beer from the stillage and from a beer engine side by side it can be quite a pronounced difference. A lot depends on how the beer is poured and how conditioned the beer is also. It is similar to comparing a freshly opened bottle of wine to one that has been in a decanter for a while.

My Granda' used to say "it knocks t'bloody corners off't".
If there was no sparkler (or a weak head), he wouldn't drink it...

Cool, thanks guys. So is a sparkler just a series of small holes in the end of the swan neck of a beer engine or is it more complicated than that. If I go ahead with the cube contraption I have in my head I'm just wondering if I could replicate it with a section of plastic bottling tube with a series of holes drilled in it.

Any thoughts?
Jono.

 

[kirem]

Have you checked the following thread out?

http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...c=9510&st=0

 

[buttersd70]

So is a sparkler just a series of small holes in the end of the swan neck of a beer engine or is it more complicated than that

Basicaly.

 

[Bribie G]

Adding the oxygen seems to soften the taste of the beer. When you try a beer from the stillage and from a beer engine side by side it can be quite a pronounced difference. A lot depends on how the beer is poured and how conditioned the beer is also. It is similar to comparing a freshly opened bottle of wine to one that has been in a decanter for a while.

As I posted in another thread, when I lived in Cardiff the local Brains pub would put on a cask of Brains SA on a trestle once a week and, compared to the tightly sparkled regular SA through the handpump it was chalk and cheese.

Also a very long time ago I was at Sheerness in Kent waiting for a ferry to Holland and ended up in a Shepherd Neame pub. The barman was serving pints through a sort of home made sparkler which consisted of a piece of metal pipe stuck in the Swan Neck with the open end looking like it was flattened with a hammer to a thin slit and it worked ok with the beer spraying into the glass and foaming up. I was a bit taken aback because I hadn't had Shep before, is it normally served with a head? The London ales, Greene King etc I had been drinking were all served with no head at all.

 

[boingk]

This reminds me of the garden-sprayer keg that somone rigged up. 10L jobbie from bunnings with a car-tyre valve on it for those CO2 pressurizers, or you could just leave it to keg-carbonate too I guess. They already have a blowoff valve, and you'd probably just need to replace the sprayer and hose with a beerline and simple flip-tap.

- boingk

PS: Darn those ales look good...might have to brew myself an ESB and get a garden sprayer

 

[MarkEinOz]

All roads lead to the Guru from the North.....

http://oz.craftbrewer.org/Library/Gear/GSa...CheapKegs.shtml

 

[Bribie G]

In the UK nearly every home brewer has one or two pressure barrels. They range from about $60 AUD which is the cost of four boxes of PETs. Do your homework on that!! I had two and brought one to Australia years ago.. it finally went to God. It amazes me that we don't have them here. I suppose it's only recently that Australian home brewers have started to make non-lager style ales and they wouldn't be suitable for fine Pilsners etc, however barrels are ideal for UK style milds, bitters and stouts. I would buy three or four if we could get them over here. They use sparklets gear for the CO2 blanketing.



It's crazy that we can import heavy Marga mills from Italy by the squillion but no HB suppliers seem to have caught on to these immensely popular kegging systems.

 

[reviled]

In the UK nearly every home brewer has one or two pressure barrels. They range from about $60 AUD which is the cost of four boxes of PETs. Do your homework on that!! I had two and brought one to Australia years ago.. it finally went to God. It amazes me that we don't have them here. I suppose it's only recently that Australian home brewers have started to make non-lager style ales and they wouldn't be suitable for fine Pilsners etc, however barrels are ideal for UK style milds, bitters and stouts. I would buy three or four if we could get them over here. They use sparklets gear for the CO2 blanketing.

View attachment 24238

It's crazy that we can import heavy Marga mills from Italy by the squillion but no HB suppliers seem to have caught on to these immensely popular kegging systems.

Bribie, its not really cost effective, but a bit closer to home than the UK, HaurakiHB in NZ sells the pressure barrel complete with a soda stream bottle, but theyre not cheap, $150 <_<