Traditional Cask Conditioned English Bitter

[Hefty]

Hi Guys,
I've been reading Garret Oliver's "The Brewmaster's Table" over my holidays and he recalls, quite romantically, his first experiences with real ale in England after he finished college. Anyway, I also read an older book by David Line that talks about cask conditioning and I was wondering: If I were to brew an English bitter and then rack, dry hop and prime it in a cube, would the cube withstand the pressure of light british carbonation so that I could then gravity pour it straight from the cube tap (I know that over time oxidization would be an issue, but only if lasts that long )

Opinions?
Jono.

 

[Offline]

Some good info here i'm sure there is some talk of cubes but i don't think it he was using the cube tap

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I recall other threads discussing this - have a search and you will find them I'm sure. I think the rough answer is "yes" I'm sure people are doing it... but there are probably fine details that stop you from blowing the cube up.

 

[BOG]

No,

Ive got the plastic taps on my cubes and it blows the tap off. Beer everywhere.

I've primed and put in a keg in the garage to get roughly the same result. That works just takes a few weeks like in a bottle.




BOG

 

[Offline]

No,

Ive got the plastic taps on my cubes and it blows the tap off. Beer everywhere.

I've primed and put in a keg in the garage to get roughly the same result. That works just takes a few weeks like in a bottle.




BOG

Are you talking English cask ale?
If so there should be very little pressure above atmospheric, it shouldnt blow your tap off.

 

[BOG]

Fullers ESB clone. Does that count ?

 

[Offline]

Fullers ESB clone. Does that count ?

Depends if you served it warm and flat

Here is another link about serving from a cube, i haven't read it all though so i'm not sure what the consensus was

 

[Hutch]

I've not tried the cube method, though I've used about 20-30kPa to filter from a cube - turns into a bit of a balloon I might add. Never done this for longer than it takes to filter however, and would be concerned about popping out your tap in the long-term.

Like BOG, I use kegs, and over winter (averages about 10-12*C in Melbourne) I leave it out the back door, with slight pressure in the keg (15-20kPa), and a stainless tap (similar to the one below) on top - no need for beer-line at these low pressures. Not bad at all - very close to hand-pumped beers in ol' bligh-y.

Hutch.

 

[Cortez The Killer]

We used cubes at the IBU Real Ale Fest 2008 (RAF08)

They held pressure no problems

Cracked the lid to dispense through a standard fermenter tap - rigged up to a beer pump

It was a most awesome day

We also had a couple of cubes pour directly from the tap on the day

The sparkler on the beer engine though made all the difference

RAF#2 is coming up soon - very excited!

Cheers

 

[raven19]

Cortez,
That pour reminds me sooooo much of English beer in bristol.
Love the old school hand pumped beers.
Aaaah, the momories!
Gotta get me a beer engine...
Well done.

 

[Hutch]

The sparkler on the beer engine though made all the difference

Sparkler - sacrelig!

 

[Fatgodzilla]

No, Ive got the plastic taps on my cubes and it blows the tap off. Beer everywhere. I've primed and put in a keg in the garage to get roughly the same result. That works just takes a few weeks like in a bottle.
BOG

What beer did you have in the keg and what amount of sugar did you prime it with ? Re Cortez's post above, the cubes used contained low carbonation english style brews. Seemed to work fine. Go for a bubblier brew - say an australian pale ale, I can imagine too much pressure in the cube and subsequent blown tap.

 

[Bribie G]

The Pig & Whistle in Brisbane has hand pumped Wells Bombardier but it's not 'real', it comes from a lightly pressurised keg (not cask) which is how it is delivered from the UK. However I'm really looking forward to a couple of hand pumped pints in Glebe next week :icon_drool2:
When I was a lad sparklers were universal in Yorkshire and for some reason in Cardiff, but not used much in the South of England and especially not in London where the beer was served with a total lack of head. However since the 1970s this has become very 'blurred' with many brands going national.

In the North and Midlands in the 1960s huge numbers of pubs and clubs were converted to bright tank beer which was delivered to the pubs by tankers that looked exactly like milk tankers. The beer was served to the bar by electric pump, not CO2. Most of the pumps were very decorative and featured glass cylinders set in chrome or brass with a piston moving backwards and forwards so you could see the beer flowing into your glass. I didn't mind tank beer, it was cool but not frozen, lightly carbonated, unpasteurized and the best of a bad deal compared to the fizzy, nuked keg beers like Watney's Red Barrel or Worthington E :icon_vomit: or those dreadful 3.2 lagers of the day.

I note that Pilsner Urquell are fitting nearly all their pubs and cafes in their homeland with bright beer tanks and that they are becoming popular in brewpubs overseas, dunno about here.

 

[white.grant]

Sparkler - sacrelig!

No, no, the Sparkler is traditional in the northern illawarra.... Well it is now anyway

 

[PostModern]

RAF#2 is coming up soon - very excited!

Cheers

I was looking at those pics in anticipation of RAF09 today as well. Getting thirsty for bitters, milds and IPA.

In answer to Hefty's question, the fella that owns the beer engine in those pics usually serves his Real Ale at home straight from a cube. The engine is just for show, he reckons. Just make sure your tap and seals are fine. If you overprime and the cask looks like it's going to blow, just bleed off a little pressure by loosening the lid for a second or two.

 

[mje1980]

Cortez is right, it can be done. I was at that real ale festival. F&cken best beer day ever. I had mine carb'd up ( lightly ) in my brew fridge for a week before the festival, and was drinking it from the tap. I used 50g for a 17 litre cube. It expands, but if you stress out, you can just crack the lid. BUT, when it goes through the beer engine, it is SOOOOOOO much better. It is the best way to drink i believe. Im hoping like hell im not working for this upcoming Real ale day.

But, yes you can do it. I plan on doing a porter in the coldest part of winter, then just leaving it on the kitchen bench, so i can drink while im cooking stew etc.

CHeers

 

[Hefty]

I'm generally pretty paranoid about checking my brews daily because my brewing fridge doesn't run, it's just a big esky/ice box so I've gotta keep the temp even. I guess I could use the same technique to do the the "lightly prime and check daily" option.
One of the linked threads made mention of pressure release valves that could be fitted into cube lids. I will do the required searching but I figure I'll ask anyway: Anyone know any local (I'm in Brisbane's south side) place/s that sell PRV's for about 4PSI that could be installed into a cube lid?

Cheers!
Jono.

 

[WildebeestAttack]

I spent 12 months as a head brewer of a micro in the UK, so can offer so advice.

All our cask ales were carbonated in the cask (probably to about what a cube can handle, although it would be touch and go) for about two weeks before going out to trade. What makes it low carbonation when serving is down to the cellar master in the pub who uses a spile to condition the cask prior to serving. (Basically a piece of cane is punctured into the shive - the bung on the top of the cask - to allow the CO2 to escape). Depending on the beer type and how lively it is, this may take anywhere from 12 to 48 hours. After this sort of conditioning only the residual CO2 remains. What it also means is that the cask will draw air in from the cellar and in around 5-7 days the beer will spoil. (Some non-CAMRA approved pubs use a blanket CO2 system which buys them several weeks of sale time but upsets greatly the bearded trainspotters).

If you want to have an English style ale, served off the stillage so to speak, you would need to allow it to carbonate then vent off the CO2 before pouring. I know the Wheatsheaf in Adelaide basically does this when using their beer engine (Coopers Stout from a beer engine is as good as the best real ale you will find in the UK).

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

I spent 12 months as a head brewer of a micro in the UK, so can offer so advice.

All our cask ales were carbonated in the cask (probably to about what a cube can handle, although it would be touch and go) for about two weeks before going out to trade. What makes it low carbonation when serving is down to the cellar master in the pub who uses a spile to condition the cask prior to serving. (Basically a piece of cane is punctured into the shive - the bung on the top of the cask - to allow the CO2 to escape). Depending on the beer type and how lively it is, this may take anywhere from 12 to 48 hours. After this sort of conditioning only the residual CO2 remains. What it also means is that the cask will draw air in from the cellar and in around 5-7 days the beer will spoil. (Some non-CAMRA approved pubs use a blanket CO2 system which buys them several weeks of sale time but upsets greatly the bearded trainspotters).

If you want to have an English style ale, served off the stillage so to speak, you would need to allow it to carbonate then vent off the CO2 before pouring. I know the Wheatsheaf in Adelaide basically does this when using their beer engine (Coopers Stout from a beer engine is as good as the best real ale you will find in the UK).

Long time no post WildebeestAttack! Welcome back to AHB :icon_cheers:

Are you still in the UK mate?

C&B
TDA

 

[WildebeestAttack]

Got back a couple of months ago. Picked the moment to leave the UK perfectly - freezing cold and jobs vanishing all over the place.