Torrified Wheat Usage Levels

[nabs478]

I have found on a website (http://www.murphyandson.co.uk/Malts/TorrifiedWheat.htm) that they recommend no more that 10% of the grain bill to be made up with torrified wheat. I am wondering if anyone has used more than that, and what effects it has had? Or if anyone can give an explanation of why this is?

 

[Effect]

wouldn't that be dependent on style?

you would use more than 10% in a wit or a weizen....

 

[nabs478]

I guess you can have a style dependent usage level with all graind and styles, but also the grains themselves are often sold with some type of maximum usage reccomendation. For example some crytal malts say that it is recommended to use no more than 20% of that grain in any beer...I assume if you do use heaps more than that, they are saying the beer will be crap.

With a wit, obvisouly people use more than 10% wheat, but do they use more than that amount of torrified wheat? And if so, are there any issues, apart from lautering issues, with using 50% TW?

 

[gap]

A wit such as Hoegaarden can have 50% unmalted whaet in it ,whether torrified or just raw whole wheat.

 

[Fourstar]

I did a belgian wit with a huge chunk of torrefied in it

2.00 kg Pilsner, Malt Craft Export (Joe White) 39.6 %
1.00 kg Vienna Malt (Weyermann) 19.8 %
1.00 kg Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) 19.8 %
1.00 kg Wheat, Torrified (Thomas Fawcett) 19.8 %
0.05 kg Caramunich I (Weyermann) 1.0 %

15.00 gm Northern Brewer 60 min
5.00 gm Northern Brewer 0 min
1.00 items Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 min)
20.00 gm Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 min)

1 Pkgs SafAle German Ale (DCL Yeast #K-97) Yeast-Ale

The only thing i noticed is my efficiency was lower than standard but i woud write this off to being an issue with my new mash tun, NOT with the torrefied wheat. Getting used to new equiptment and rushing the sparge. I didnt get a stuck mash and i actually sparged too quickly as i was expecting it to be slow with all my new valves (smaller than pervious)

the belgian wit Its due to come out of primary today after a very slow ferment due to temprature issues. I can safely say it smells like a wit, tastes like a wit, CLOUDY like a wit also. no yeast haze or FLOUR added at the end of boil either.

I would be happy to use torrefied like raw wheat if you cannot get your hands on it as a replacment. just make sure its cracked well or it floats. Tastes very much like a belgian and i didnt used 50% MALTED wheat like most homebrewers do (or use bourghul which is steamed wheat aswell).

go for it! youll be pleasantly suprised.

 

[Phoney]

*bump*

Just on the same topic as this thread.. im planning on making the following extract Belgian wit: (thanks to manticle for help on this one)

1.5kg Pale LME
1.5kg Liquid Wheat Extract
1kg Torrefied Wheat
52g of Styrian Goldings (AA 3%) @ 60 min
10g of crushed corriander seeds & zest of 1 orange for last 5 mins of boil.
1kg of candi sugar added 3 days into primary
Irish moss
Whitelabs WLP400

IBU 16.2%
OG 1.054
FG 1.012

Anyway, I bought all of the ingredients today & my LHBS advised me that attempting to mash 1kg of torrefied wheat would result in a thick porridge in my grain bag that would be too difficult to sparge. So he kindly threw in a kilo of carapils and suggested that I mix them half and half and then mash two seperate batches. So ive since gone home and done a bit of reading.. and have found this on a recipe elsewhere:

Mini mash - 1000gms Torrefied Wheat
Put 3 litres of cold water in a saucepan and add grains and heat up VERY SLOWLY (over a 25 to 30 minute period) until just short of boiling. Strain the liquid and put into a saucepan for the boil, discard the grain residue.


My question now is, which method would you recommend? or any other suggestions?

Cheers

 

[MHB]

Don't like the look of the last one at all, torrefied wheat has no available enzymes so it can't mash itself.

I would think you need at an absolute minimum half base malt (three quarters would be better), even then you would be in for a very long mash, as the base malt not only has to convert its own starch, but all the starch in the wheat as well.

MHB

 

[Phoney]

The last one I got from here: http://www.grainandgrape.com.au/BeerOTMonth/riggers_wit.htm (Malt Extract & Mini Mash Version)

OK, so if i were to do a 50/50 batch mash, would you say 90 mins be enough?

 

[MHB]

Well the G&G method recommends 1.5:1, I think that's a better ratio than 1:1 (I would go 2:1 or more) and it's an interesting mini-mash method that passes through all the normal rests.

You could certainly try 1:1 for 90 minutes, mash in at 50^c for 10 minutes then jump up to scarification temps for 90 minutes (say 65^c give or take) then test for starch.

Probably not all that critical really, fun to have a play around with and see what happens.

MHB

 

[Weizguy]

*bump*

Just on the same topic as this thread.. im planning on making the following extract Belgian wit: (thanks to manticle for help on this one)

1.5kg Pale LME
1.5kg Liquid Wheat Extract
1kg Torrefied Wheat
52g of Styrian Goldings (AA 3%) @ 60 min
10g of crushed corriander seeds & zest of 1 orange for last 5 mins of boil.
1kg of candi sugar added 3 days into primary
Irish moss
Whitelabs WLP400

IBU 16.2%
OG 1.054
FG 1.012

Anyway, I bought all of the ingredients today & my LHBS advised me that attempting to mash 1kg of torrefied wheat would result in a thick porridge in my grain bag that would be too difficult to sparge. So he kindly threw in a kilo of carapils and suggested that I mix them half and half and then mash two seperate batches. So ive since gone home and done a bit of reading.. and have found this on a recipe elsewhere:

Mini mash - 1000gms Torrefied Wheat
Put 3 litres of cold water in a saucepan and add grains and heat up VERY SLOWLY (over a 25 to 30 minute period) until just short of boiling. Strain the liquid and put into a saucepan for the boil, discard the grain residue.


My question now is, which method would you recommend? or any other suggestions?

Cheers

I would hope that your lhbs doesn't think that Carapils will have any enzymes to mash the wheat.
Unless the steep is for flavour. Either way, I would not boil the Carapils unless you want an overly dry, astringent Witbier.
Then again, try it once to prove to yourself. Maybe even just do the grain part of the brew and sample it separately. You will save a bit of grief if you don't go over 80C. Over that temp you will begin to extract tannins, like in tea.

That is my suggestion. Treat it as you will.

Beerz
Les

 

[manticle]

My mistake too - I misread/mistook 'torrified' for 'wheat malt'. If I were to advise you again I'd recommend replacing a portion (maybe 70 -80 %) of the torrified for wheat malt and mashing that.

Torrified wheat is meant to be good for head retention but trying to do a 1kg mash might be a bit much.

My apologies for leading you astray.

 

[Kai]

You could certainly try 1:1 for 90 minutes, mash in at 50^c for 10 minutes then jump up to scarification temps for 90 minutes (say 65^c give or take) then test for starch.

Ah the good old scarification temp... right up there with terrified wheat.

But seriously though, no homebrew shop should *ever* send someone away with a bag of carapils and a bag of torrefied wheat and leave them with the assumption they'll make beer out of it.

 

[Phoney]

My mistake too - I misread/mistook 'torrified' for 'wheat malt'. If I were to advise you again I'd recommend replacing a portion (maybe 70 -80 %) of the torrified for wheat malt and mashing that.

Torrified wheat is meant to be good for head retention but trying to do a 1kg mash might be a bit much.

My apologies for leading you astray.

No worries

grain isnt exactly expensive, so in that case I might get 750g of Pale Wheat Malt, and use 250g of the Torrefied.

Should I leave the carapils out altoghether? What does it do in terms of adding flavour, body, head retention etc?

ta

 

[manticle]

I haven't used carapils but my understanding is that it is a lightly coloured crystal malt that contributes a lot of dextrines to the brew (which aid in retention and body). Someone else would be better at advising on amounts but I'd hazard a guess that you'll get more than one brew out of that kilo. I don't think it's out of place though.

If you are going to buy more grain for mashing for that recipe I'd go a mix of pilsner and wheat malts and just add small amounts of the cara and torrified but there will be some more experienced mashers who can put you right on that.

 

[Gavo]

If you're using wheat then there will be no need for Carapils as it is really only needed for extra body and head retention. The wheat will give you the head retention, some brewers add a small amount of wheat to their grain bill for head retention.

Cheers
Gavo.

 

[Phoney]

Thanks guys. So now the recipe (version 15) grain bill looks like this:

200g Torrefied Wheat
600g Wheat Malt Organic (Weyermann)
200g Pilsner Malt (Weyermann)

Sound ok?

 

[hazard]

With a wit, obvisouly people use more than 10% wheat, but do they use more than that amount of torrified wheat? And if so, are there any issues, apart from lautering issues, with using 50% TW?

Last wit I made was according to traditional recipe: 50% barley, 45% wheat, 5% oatmeal (plus coriander and orange zest). Yep, sparge got stuck and next time I will use rice hulls. But apart from that, it came out well and I am very happy. Don't worry about a 10% limit.

I used a protein rest at 50 deg then raised mash temp to 65 deg. Protein rest was maybe too effective, as there is NO haze in the beer, clear as a bell. Maybe just a single infusion rest next time?