Tonic Water
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benno1973
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Ok, Newtons Pharmacy in Sydney have Cinchona bark in tincture form. They don't sell the bark, as it's difficult to obtain and they need it to make the tincture with, however they are going to sell me 100g of the bark to play with, and they think they may be able to obtain more bark in the future for direct sale. Not sure how much 100g will make, but it will be good for some experimentation. I also ordered some of the tincture to mess around with, to see if that's a viable option.
The prices for the tincture are:
50ml - $10.45
100ml - $19.32
200ml - $35.20
500ml - $67.80
I also emailed Koda Phytorium and got the following response:
The prices for the tincture are:
50ml - $10.45
100ml - $19.32
200ml - $35.20
500ml - $67.80
I also emailed Koda Phytorium and got the following response:
brettprevans
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Any idea of how much tincture to water to make tonic?
benno1973
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No, I'm going to experiment a bit to see if it's viable using the tincture.
brettprevans
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Sorry I miaread ur post. experiment away. We await with baited breath.
Philthy79
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Indeed we do!
benno1973
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OK, so I finally got around to having a crack at some tonic water yesterday, after being laid up in bed sick for a couple of days. I followed and slightly adapted this recipe on a blog I found. Most recipes I found seemed vaguely the same in terms of ingredients, just varied on the amounts and cooking process.
Anyway, the final recipe I used was
4 cups water
1 cup chopped lemongrass
25g cinchona bark
zest of 1 orange
zest of 1 lemon
zest of 1 lime
1 tsp whole allspice berries
0.25 cup citric acid
3.5 cups sugar
First, prepare all the dry ingredients except for the sugar. I skipped the juices of the lemon, lime and orange only because my brain was frazzled and I possibly can't read a recipe correctly.
Add all ingredients plus the water to a pot and simmer for 20 minutes. The mixture will slowly turn brown/red taking on the colour from the cinchona bark and allspice. The smell was... amazing.
Pour the contents into a coffee plunger and press to separate the solids, and then pour the liquid back into the saucepan. Return to the heat and add a cup of sugar for each cup of liquid (in this case, I had 3.5 cups of liquid). Stir until the sugar is dissolved.
Finally bottle the syrup and store in the fridge. When using, mix syrup:soda water at a 1:4 ratio.
And the taste? Incredibly good. This is a great tasting tonic, quite floral but with the perfect amount of quinine bitterness. More citrus would be nice, as would a little more lemongrass, so I'd suggest adding more lemongrass if you can.
I'm still to make a version with the tincture. I'm going to try exactly the same recipe to see if using the tincture replicates the flavour, but I'm still waiting to hear back from the supplier about the equivalent amounts of tincture to bark.
And the money shot (not my photo, taken by my friend on her iphone)
Anyway, the final recipe I used was
4 cups water
1 cup chopped lemongrass
25g cinchona bark
zest of 1 orange
zest of 1 lemon
zest of 1 lime
1 tsp whole allspice berries
0.25 cup citric acid
3.5 cups sugar
First, prepare all the dry ingredients except for the sugar. I skipped the juices of the lemon, lime and orange only because my brain was frazzled and I possibly can't read a recipe correctly.
Add all ingredients plus the water to a pot and simmer for 20 minutes. The mixture will slowly turn brown/red taking on the colour from the cinchona bark and allspice. The smell was... amazing.
Pour the contents into a coffee plunger and press to separate the solids, and then pour the liquid back into the saucepan. Return to the heat and add a cup of sugar for each cup of liquid (in this case, I had 3.5 cups of liquid). Stir until the sugar is dissolved.
Finally bottle the syrup and store in the fridge. When using, mix syrup:soda water at a 1:4 ratio.
And the taste? Incredibly good. This is a great tasting tonic, quite floral but with the perfect amount of quinine bitterness. More citrus would be nice, as would a little more lemongrass, so I'd suggest adding more lemongrass if you can.
I'm still to make a version with the tincture. I'm going to try exactly the same recipe to see if using the tincture replicates the flavour, but I'm still waiting to hear back from the supplier about the equivalent amounts of tincture to bark.
And the money shot (not my photo, taken by my friend on her iphone)
brettprevans
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well thats great news. except for the sugar. i drink the diet tonic and prefer the taste without sugar. but good news
how about another test without all the other stuff. just water and cinchona?
how about another test without all the other stuff. just water and cinchona?
benno1973
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I'll give that a shot if you'd like. I think it would taste pretty horrible, as the quinine has a pretty bitter flavour to it. It'd be much like mixing bitters and water I'd imagine, but I'll give it a go and see. To be honest, I think it'd taste better with the other ingredients if you're going to omit the sugar, as it needs a citrus hit, and the citric acid gives it a tang.
I totally understand about the sugar thing. I was trying to make something low in sugar myself, but first I wanted to make as per the recipe to have a baseline. I'll try reducing the sugar, and I'll also try substituting agave nectar and stevia for the sugar component. At the end of the day, if it tastes shit without the sugar, I can always add sugar syrup back into it until it tastes ok. As an aside, the taste of the recipe I made was incredible, but I'd imagine it would be fine with less sugar. It was quite sweet.
Any other requests for experiments?
I totally understand about the sugar thing. I was trying to make something low in sugar myself, but first I wanted to make as per the recipe to have a baseline. I'll try reducing the sugar, and I'll also try substituting agave nectar and stevia for the sugar component. At the end of the day, if it tastes shit without the sugar, I can always add sugar syrup back into it until it tastes ok. As an aside, the taste of the recipe I made was incredible, but I'd imagine it would be fine with less sugar. It was quite sweet.
Any other requests for experiments?
benno1973
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I forgot to add, the 100g of bark cost $18 delivered and it'd make somewhere around 5L of the syrup. Mixed at 1:4, that's about 25L of tonic water and given the low cost of the other ingredients, it'd be fair to say that you could probably make tonic for around $1/L which is slightly cheaper than store bought I think? (and much tastier).
Philthy79
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benno1973
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Newton's Pharmacy in Sydney, but I had to beg 
brettprevans
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i was just thinking that 'normal' tonic doesnt have all that stuff. isnt it just water and quinine?
bugger. coles tonic is under $1. yes i know home made will taste infinitely better, but i was hoping for a cheaper options than buying 3 bottles of tonic a week. still it would be worth at least 1 keg for the novelty
Philthy79
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Coles tonic is, but Q Tonic and Fever Tree go for about $3 per 275ml(ish).
http://qtonic.com/
http://www.fever-tree.com/drinks.php
brettprevans
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oh right im with you now. havent had either. i assume Q Tonic fever tree have those other type ingrediants in them?
I just drink tonic like i do water and go through 3 x 1.25L bottles a week. I like the bitterness
benno1973
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The ingredients list for Schweppes Indian Tonic water is listed as
So there's citric acid for the 'zing' factor (used quite often in cordials I hear so they don't taste so flat), sugar (of course) and the mysterious 'flavourings'. This can be any number of things, and I assume represents the rest of the ingredients in the recipe.
As far as I know, Schweppes is one of the few brands to still use real quinine in their tonic, but I think they use very little and add bitterness from other sources to complement it. That's all hearsay though, I have no proof to back that up.
Still, CM2, I have been thinking about your idea of just doing water and cinchona. Might be a good experiment to see what the cinchona actually brings to the party. Obviously the bitterness is one thing, but I wonder if there's a unique taste associated with it as well? If not, it might just be easier to make tonic with a different bittering agent. I mean, bitter lemon uses lemon rind and pith to add an extra bitterness to the drink, so that's an option. Angostura bitters uses gentian root which might be easier to come by. Hell, it might just be possible to add some Angostura bitters instead. Some brands of bitters use Cinchona as an ingredient. Wikipedia says that artichoke leaf can be used as a bittering agent. Lots of options.
Or perhaps that's just tonic water blasphemy.
So there's citric acid for the 'zing' factor (used quite often in cordials I hear so they don't taste so flat), sugar (of course) and the mysterious 'flavourings'. This can be any number of things, and I assume represents the rest of the ingredients in the recipe.
As far as I know, Schweppes is one of the few brands to still use real quinine in their tonic, but I think they use very little and add bitterness from other sources to complement it. That's all hearsay though, I have no proof to back that up.
Still, CM2, I have been thinking about your idea of just doing water and cinchona. Might be a good experiment to see what the cinchona actually brings to the party. Obviously the bitterness is one thing, but I wonder if there's a unique taste associated with it as well? If not, it might just be easier to make tonic with a different bittering agent. I mean, bitter lemon uses lemon rind and pith to add an extra bitterness to the drink, so that's an option. Angostura bitters uses gentian root which might be easier to come by. Hell, it might just be possible to add some Angostura bitters instead. Some brands of bitters use Cinchona as an ingredient. Wikipedia says that artichoke leaf can be used as a bittering agent. Lots of options.
Or perhaps that's just tonic water blasphemy.
