Timothy Taylor Yeast?

[Voosher]

Okay.
I took about 45ml of the yeast and made it up to 2l of DME starter (SG 1040) and split that 5 ways.
4 of those were fridged for storage, the other allowed to kick off.
The 400ml starter was fermenting after 12 hours (at around 20-22C) and was ready to step up after 24 hours. The yeast cake at the bottom of the initial starter was thick and healthy. By sight much more than my normal starter of about one quarter of a Propagator smackpack.
The stepped up starter (just over a litre) was happily chugging away almost immediately.
Brewed yesterday - a simple recipe of 99% Maris Otter, 1% Choc Malt, Bittered with Fuggles, 25g EKG @ 15m, Fuggles plug at Flame out - 25l batch at OG 1048 and around 35IBU.
Pitched yesterday at about 4:30pm at 23C and allowed it to come down gently to the planned ferment temp of 19C. At 2 this morning there was a good early krausen. This morning it's around 3cm thick. All seems good and healthy.
So, I reckon the 180-odd-ml sample is good for around 500l of brew... comfortably.
I'll keep you posted as far as fermenting characteristics are concerned.
Good luck and enjoy.
:beer:

 

[kirem]

I had to be very careful with the amount of yeast I supplied.

When compared to the theory, home brewers are notoriuos underpitchers. I supplied the cell count that wyeast recommends to pitch to 23L and then added a bit more to be safe.

If you make starters, then what I supplied will go along way.

 

[ausdb]

I am trying to get some specs on the 1496 yeast.

anyone used it yet?

Kirk

Hi Kirk, did you manage to get any specs on the yeast yet?

I opened mine last night and split off 15 samples into sterile water then 2/3 went in to 22l of a 1.035 pale mild and 1/3 into about 10L of 1.025 starter wort. Hopefully they will have fired up when I get home today :unsure:

 

[Voosher]

Racked this after 11 days primary.
Initial ferment was around 19-20C. After about 60hrs fermentation SG had dropped from 1048 to 1018 and it looked like the yeast was dropping out and clearing so I gave it a gentle rousing. This may have been unnecessary :excl: The next day the krausen was up to the lid of the fermenter :blink:
I left it be and lifted the ferment temp to around 21-22C from day 5 to now.
SG has dropped to 1012 which is around 75% attenuation.
Krausen didn't fall back in completely but that could have been related to my premature rousing.
It tastes fine but I'll leave any detailed description until after it's bottled.

Any update on the 'factory figures' re ferment temps, attenuation etc?

 

[bigfridge]

Racked this after 11 days primary.
Initial ferment was around 19-20C. After about 60hrs fermentation SG had dropped from 1048 to 1018 and it looked like the yeast was dropping out and clearing so I gave it a gentle rousing. This may have been unnecessary :excl: The next day the krausen was up to the lid of the fermenter :blink:
I left it be and lifted the ferment temp to around 21-22C from day 5 to now.
SG has dropped to 1012 which is around 75% attenuation.
Krausen didn't fall back in completely but that could have been related to my premature rousing.
It tastes fine but I'll leave any detailed description until after it's bottled.

Voosher,

Sounds like you did everything right - just treat this like any other English ale yeast and you should be alright.

Any update on the 'factory figures' re ferment temps, attenuation etc?

We have asked a couple of times, but not being one of their regular lines the specs are not 'close at hand'. Hence someone has to dig them out and this doesn't always happen straight away.

In the absence of any other data, I would just treat this like any other northern Uk ale yeast - you won't be far off the mark. Maybe the TT website has some info/pictures on how they ferment their version.


David

 

[ausdb]

Racked this after 11 days primary.
Initial ferment was around 19-20C. After about 60hrs fermentation SG had dropped from 1048 to 1018 and it looked like the yeast was dropping out and clearing so I gave it a gentle rousing. This may have been unnecessary :excl: The next day the krausen was up to the lid of the fermenter :blink:
I left it be and lifted the ferment temp to around 21-22C from day 5 to now.
SG has dropped to 1012 which is around 75% attenuation.
Krausen didn't fall back in completely but that could have been related to my premature rousing.
It tastes fine but I'll leave any detailed description until after it's bottled.

Any update on the 'factory figures' re ferment temps, attenuation etc?

Voosher
I've just been reading the thread on diacetyl and your post about the TT yeast. When I was splitting my bottle up I had some thoughts that it was going to be a 1968 style yeast just by the way it had flocculated out and turned to mud in the bottom of bottle. I will be on the lookout for diacetyl and once bitten twice shy!

When I had emptied the yeast out of the small wine bottle I poured about 100ml of wort back into it just to see how well it would get going with the film of yeast left in it. I absent mindedly left it on the window sill outside my back door and forgot to put it inside. When I got home from work that aftrrnoon it had already fermented and flocced out! Not sure if it is going to taste ok but it was awfully quick to ferment.

Both of the starters I made are currently going well with nice rocky heads, the mild is in a fridge at 19-20c (good guess!) and the low gravity starter in my laundry (low 20's). I think this is going to be a good top cropper as well.

PS Bigfridge just saw your reply sort of answers the pm I sent the other day

 

[Voosher]

Voosher
I've just been reading the thread on diacetyl and your post about the TT yeast. When I was splitting my bottle up I had some thoughts that it was going to be a 1968 style yeast just by the way it had flocculated out and turned to mud in the bottom of bottle. I will be on the lookout for diacetyl and once bitten twice shy!

When I had emptied the yeast out of the small wine bottle I poured about 100ml of wort back into it just to see how well it would get going with the film of yeast left in it. I absent mindedly left it on the window sill outside my back door and forgot to put it inside. When I got home from work that aftrrnoon it had already fermented and flocced out! Not sure if it is going to taste ok but it was awfully quick to ferment.

Both of the starters I made are currently going well with nice rocky heads, the mild is in a fridge at 19-20c (good guess!) and the low gravity starter in my laundry (low 20's). I think this is going to be a good top cropper as well.

PS Bigfridge just saw your reply sort of answers the pm I sent the other day

I caught wiffs of diacetyl early on in the ferment which is why I made sure it got the solid rest at the end of primary. There are still hints of diacetyl but at 11 days I think it's a bit early to declare a Diacetyl Hazard Zone. I will get some other opinions later as it appears as if I'm in the sick minority who quite like the stuff

The fast ferment doesn't surprise me. Mine raced away to start with and slowed a little but was down to 1014 by day 5. Given the persistent krausen on mine I'm happy to declare it a good top cropper also.



Thanks for your quick response as well David.
It all seems fine so far. I may adjust some minor details next time but it tastes like we're in the zone.

Edit: And not much on the website. I've checked many a time. I have been tempted to email the brewer with some cheeky questions but there's not much in the way of contact emails - especially for the brewers.
Ah, the charms of an old school brewery... "What t'fook's email?"... I can almost hear them saying it

Cheers.

 

[Voosher]

I've just surrendered to impetuosity and sampled my first effort at just 4 days in the bottle.
Somewhat under-carbonated, but when did that ever matter for a Brit ale?
Nice.
Yes, some diacetyl, but nicely subtle for my palate.
The yeast picks up the Fuggles which dominated my hop bill and makes them rich and earthy.
It also works to enhance maltiness. I just used Maris Otter and some ChocMalt and it really feels rich. I'll be interested to hear if the Golden Promise brews that others have underway are given that extra depth courtesy of the yeast. I'll find out for myself soon enough.
I know I stuffed up my boil so it doesn't present as well as it should but it won't last long enough for any ill effects to develop... time for another then

 

[Duff]

Regarding attenuation, Voosher experienced around 75%, what were the figures from those who brewed up the TTL at the Perth brewday?

Cheers.

 

[Vlad the Pale Aler]

Duff, re. attenuation.

I can't find my notes of the gravities from the Perth TTLPA, but I have just done an ESB using the slurry from that beer.
1.054 to 1.004, fermented at 20c for 10 days, mashed at 64c
This gives us an apparent attenuation of 92%, real attenuation of 74%, ABV 6.5%

Yes it is a bit on the dry side.

 

[Mr Bond]

Duff, re. attenuation.

I can't find my notes of the gravities from the Perth TTLPA, but I have just done an ESB using the slurry from that beer.
1.054 to 1.004, fermented at 20c for 10 days, mashed at 64c
This gives us an apparent attenuation of 92%, real attenuation of 74%, ABV 6.5%

Yes it is a bit on the dry side.

Looks like it's a chewer alright.
I will prolly aim for 66c in the mash to give it a little more body.

 

[Voosher]

I just racked my second effort and attenuation is very similar to the first time though just a tad higher at around 77%
Grist was 96% Maris Otter, 4% crystals.
Mash schedule included a protein rest at 50C and sacc rest at 66-67C.
Taste is still dry but the crystal helps to soften the finish... as do the lashings of Willamette.
Still. The last one tasted okay out of the hydro and finished up as dry as a nun's nasty.

 

[bigfridge]

I just racked my second effort and attenuation is very similar to the first time though just a tad higher at around 77%
Grist was 96% Maris Otter, 4% crystals.
Mash schedule included a protein rest at 50C and sacc rest at 66-67C.
Taste is still dry but the crystal helps to soften the finish... as do the lashings of Willamette.
Still. The last one tasted okay out of the hydro and finished up as dry as a nun's nasty.

Hi Voosher,

Wyeast quote an Apparent Attenuation of 67-71% - which is much less than their other pommy ale yeasts.

Your malt bill looks ok (although TTL is rumoured to use 100 % Golden Promise malt with colour adjustment) but I am worried by your protein rest. Maris Otter is well modified (ie the maltster has done all the protein breakdown for you) so british brewers would give it a single stand at 64.5 C for 60-90 mins or there abouts.

HTH,
Dave

 

[Voosher]

Hi Voosher,

Wyeast quote an Apparent Attenuation of 67-71% - which is much less than their other pommy ale yeasts.

Your malt bill looks ok (although TTL is rumoured to use 100 % Golden Promise malt with colour adjustment) but I am worried by your protein rest. Maris Otter is well modified (ie the maltster has done all the protein breakdown for you) so british brewers would give it a single stand at 64.5 C for 60-90 mins or there abouts.

HTH,
Dave

G'day Dave.
Thanks for your feedback.
I'm trialling a protein rest to try to remove or reduce the chill haze I tend to get with Bairds Maris Otter. I know it shouldn't be necessary but if it will clear the beer a little more I'll be happy.
From the experience of other brewers with Golden Promise we may be struggling to replicate TTL via that route. The colour for one is much lighter with the all GP brews I've seen. Either the TT supplied malting specs are different from the Bairds most of us seem to get here or they do something with the mash and boil for colour and maltiness.
I do have an all GP brew planned using the TT yeast but in the meantime I'm trialling a few more familiar grists to get a feel for the flavour. My thoughts at the moment are that an all GP brew will need a fairly high mash temp for body. I know of at least one other brewer who's tried a long hard boil to try to add colour but it still finished golden rather the more copper hues of TTL.
We'll just have to keep experimenting 'til we get it right :huh:
Ah, the sacrifices we make
Cheers.

 

[kirem]

My thoughts are these....TT may use 100% golden promise, but some of this barley variety is malted/stewed to crystal or another specialty malt.

I think we are assuming that 100% Golden promise is 100% GP Pale ale malt, not 85% GP ale malt and perhaps 15% GP crystal or something similar.


Kirk

 

[Duff]

I wouldn't waste your time Voosher with 100% GP, it sucks. Stick with the MO. I just got rid of my last stock of GP, never again.

Cheers.

 

[bigfridge]

I'm trialling a protein rest to try to remove or reduce the chill haze I tend to get with Bairds Maris Otter. I know it shouldn't be necessary but if it will clear the beer a little more I'll be happy.
From the experience of other brewers with Golden Promise we may be struggling to replicate TTL via that route. The colour for one is much lighter with the all GP brews I've seen. Either the TT supplied malting specs are different from the Bairds most of us seem to get here or they do something with the mash and boil for colour and maltiness.

I do have an all GP brew planned using the TT yeast but in the meantime I'm trialling a few more familiar grists to get a feel for the flavour. My thoughts at the moment are that an all GP brew will need a fairly high mash temp for body. I know of at least one other brewer who's tried a long hard boil to try to add colour but it still finished golden rather the more copper hues of TTL.

The sacrifices indeed.

You shouldn't get chill haze ....... if you don't chill your beer

Real ale shouldn't be stored or served below 8 deg C as it gets too gassy and the chill haze hits. I am always impressed with two aspects of real ale that always stand out - massive hop character and crystal clear.

Golden Promise malt is considered the Rolls Royce of pommy ale malts with MO a close second. But Colour has always been an issue with the HB versions of TTL, but we need to remember that pommy commercial brewers use Chocolate malt or Brewers Caramel to adjust the colour. You could try adding 15-30 grams per HL of Choc malt - at this level it deepens the colour without having any flavour effects.

I will ask a few pommy pro-brewers that I know and see if I can find out more, but this could take a while. With the current cricket scores they tend to be a little hard to contact.

Dave

 

[Voosher]

The sacrifices indeed.

You shouldn't get chill haze ....... if you don't chill your beer

I'd never disagree with that! I consider Bairds MO has built it "over-chill protection". Some others don't quite see it that way.

Golden Promise malt is considered the Rolls Royce of pommy ale malts with MO a close second. But Colour has always been an issue with the HB versions of TTL, but we need to remember that pommy commercial brewers use Chocolate malt or Brewers Caramel to adjust the colour. You could try adding 15-30 grams per HL of Choc malt - at this level it deepens the colour without having any flavour effects.

I will ask a few pommy pro-brewers that I know and see if I can find out more, but this could take a while. With the current cricket scores they tend to be a little hard to contact.

Dave

I added some Choc to the first batch but in retrospect a little too much. With the dryness of the TT yeast the Choc pushed it just a step too far.
I would be very interested to hear anything you can find out from blighty. Any Scot or Welsh brewers living in England should be happy to help. Most I know are in raptures when the English are getting a drubbing

 

[Voosher]

I wouldn't waste your time Voosher with 100% GP, it sucks. Stick with the MO. I just got rid of my last stock of GP, never again.

Cheers.

I have heard mixed reports and not too many rave about it. Unfortunately I also have quite a few kilo's in the shed so I figure I ought to give it a run for a few brews at least.
I'm actually going to do 4 single malt/single hop brews in the near future to compare Barrett Burston, Joe White, Golden Promise and Maris Otter.
If I remember I'll report back.

 

[Mr Bond]

I'm actually going to do 4 single malt/single hop brews in the near future to compare Barrett Burston, Joe White, Golden Promise and Maris Otter.
If I remember I'll report back.

Keep up the good work ol chap.

I just noticed your Sub title added ,Very nice indeed,congrats on 500 posts :beerbang: