The Ultimate Burner Comparison

[fixa]

Gents;

I need your help....

Having gone through the pain recently of deciding which burner to buy, i know there is heaps of info on this site, but no hard and fast reference as to which burner is better, at least without emotion involved.

SO... I need your help. We need some data on burn times to raise x amount of water to x degrees.

I can provide data for a 3 ring burner. we need someone with a NASA (turkey burner), mongolian, 2 ring, 4 ring, and any other type of burners there are.

Your future brewers need your help!!!!

if people can post here or pm me with their willingness to participate that would be great.

Fixa

 

[jimmyjack]

I love my NASA!!! Perhaps the below will help you out. I know I cant figure it out :blink:

Cheers, JJ

British Thermo Unit. The quantity of heat to raise the temperature of one pound of water by one degree Fahrenheit.


Coal BTU's
1 lb. ~12,500
1 Ton ~25,000,000
Electricity BTU's
1 KW/hr 3,413
OIL BTU's
1 Gal. #1 Fuel 136,000
1 Gal. #2 Fuel 138,500
1 Gal. #3 Fuel 141,000
1 Gal. #5 Fuel 148,500
1 Gal. #6 Fuel 152,000
Gas BTU's
1 lb. of Butane 21,300
1 Gal. of Butane 102,600
1 Cu. Ft. of Butane 3,260
1 Cu. Ft. of Manufactured Gas 530
1 Cu. Ft. of Mixed Gas 850
1 Cu. Ft. of Natural Gas 1,075
1 lb. of Propane 21,600
1 Gal. of Propane 91,000
1 Cu. Ft. of Propane 2,570

 

[Screwtop]

Think this is a good idea but should contain some efficiency and capital cost comparisons.

The NASA cost me around $110.00 including adjustable high pressure regulator and stand. Used to take 14 - 15 min to raise 31L to boiling point. After a good clean out it now takes 9 - 10 min. So far I have used it to boil 7 batches on one 9Kg bottle without running out of gas.

 

[WildaYeast]

Perfect timing. Was just about to add a new post and it fits well here.

I located a 3-ring burner at the local camping shop for only $30, cheaper than I expected (no hose or regulator). Looks just like the one PistolPatch had at Vjval1974's this last weekend.

I thought this might be a "NASA" burner, but from above post, maybe not...

I also noticed a post the other day for an "Induction Burner" on ebay (about $125 with postage).

Would think that electricity is likely to be more cost effective than gas, but how long to make up difference?

So, a bit of a different slant from fixa's post, cost-effectiveness, not time-efficiency, but related.

Anyone use an induction burner?

BTW, a link posted earlier in another topic, http://www.xb-70.com/beer/3_tier/#burners, mentions a "Superb" 36K BTU 3-ring burner raising a "24lb mash up 13 degrees F in about 8 minutes". He also makes an interesting point about not needing to much heat for boiling (OK for HLT).

 

[fixa]

Think this is a good idea but should contain some efficiency and capital cost comparisons.

The NASA cost me around $110.00 including adjustable high pressure regulator and stand. Used to take 14 - 15 min to raise 31L to boiling point. After a good clean out it now takes 9 - 10 min. So far I have used it to boil 7 batches on one 9Kg bottle without running out of gas.

Good Call... That info is what were after. was the water at tap temp or sparge temp?

Jimmyjack;

was after more real world figures than just the book figures. i'm sure they mean something to someone though

 

[AUHEAMIC]

I have a 4 ring burner and a 50ltr SS vessel.

The burner cost was $115.00 including regulator.

As you can imagine there are a lot of variables that can effect things but this is one log I made two brews ago.

Ambient temp 23deg
30ltr of 16deg water to 68deg in 30mins.
30ltr of 68deg wort to boiling in 20mins.

 

[Sammus]

Ive got a 3ring with a BOC LPG reg ($90 for reg). I only use the middle ring (don't confuse this with the inner ring) and I get 40L of hot tap water (~60C) to boil in about 30min.

 

[mika]

Peels information is the closest to being a scientific test.
You need to record the starting temp, the actual volume being heated, time to get to final temp and gas used to get to this temp. Then of course the purchase cost of the burner and associated equipment, minus gas bottle to level the field a little.
I'd also suggest that the final temp be below boiling point so that there are no latent heat errors intorduced.
To take it another step further, the ambient temperature and temperature and weight of the pot also need to be factored in.
Then there's such things as the pot shape.
I've got a flat bottom pot and have had to increase the distance from the burner to the pot bottom to get it to burn properly. Happy to be involved in the test, but the pots I own aren't with me at the mo.

 

[PistolPatch]

Totally agree with Mika re the vessel you are burning in. It's probably the most important factor to consider first.

A 4 ring burner will be too wide for many vessels unless raised.

A Nasa requires a little thought on set-up as it delivers a concentrated flame point and can turn a keg red hot at this point if not raised. I'm not too sure what effect this has re caramelisation. They are also noisy so will not suit some brewers.

A 3-ring burner works very well on a pot with a 45cm diameter and requires no special set-up. The outer ring still licks the side of this pot so smaller pots may require raising to gain the most heat.

Another factor to consider is how well you can control the flame on a burner. One burner may raise temperature faster but be harder to control during the boil etc.

Finally, type of regulator hose will make a huge difference in speed and adjustability. It's worth spending the money on an adjustable regulator hose. (I think you have to have one for a NASA anyway.)

Cheers
Pat

 

[Screwtop]

Think this is a good idea but should contain some efficiency and capital cost comparisons.

The NASA cost me around $110.00 including adjustable high pressure regulator and stand. Used to take 14 - 15 min to raise 31L to boiling point. After a good clean out it now takes 9 - 10 min. So far I have used it to boil 7 batches on one 9Kg bottle without running out of gas.

Good Call... That info is what were after. was the water at tap temp or sparge temp?

Jimmyjack;

was after more real world figures than just the book figures. i'm sure they mean something to someone though

Sorry fixa, the "raise 31L to boiling point" meant from sparge temp.

A Nasa requires a little thought on set-up as it delivers a concentrated flame point and can turn a keg red hot at this point if not raised. I'm not too sure what effect this has re caramelisation. They are also noisy so will not suit some brewers.

Another factor to consider is how well you can control the flame on a burner. One burner may raise temperature faster but be harder to control during the boil etc.

The NASA Burner (NASA is a nickname, it's an outdoor burner) stand is 362mm in diameter (about the same as some kegs) and the height is 310mm. The burner sits in the stand with the top of the burner 260mm above the operating surface. The burner flame diameter at the base of the keg is 120mm ("it delivers a concentrated flame point" is incorrect

). Have never bothered getting down to look at the bottom of the keg to see if it's red hot, no point as red heat in metal only becomes visible in daylight at 525C. No caramelisation using my NASA, but I stir early when the heat is first turned up to prevent any burning on the bottom of the kettle, the same as when cooking, usually a little beerstone in the bottom of the kettle, but it's easily cleaned off after with stainless steel wool. The regulator supplied with the NASA is adjustable from a low quiet flame (less than capable of maintaining a 30L boil) to a roaring high flame which will raise 30L from around 60C to a boil in just less than 10 min. The regulator has an adjusting knob which is finitely adjustable, and well away from the heat of the burner (think this is different to some earlier models). As the pressure is adjustable, the air mixture adjustment on the burner is basically set and forget. Once it's set the flame is clean, low flame or high. The NASA burner is a little noisy but not that bad, visit a brewer with one to see if it would be ok for your application. The burner is well above floor level and allows for good airflow.

Ring burners (3 ring burner here) require a fixed pressure regulator usually 2.6kPa. The flame is adjusted using individual taps for each ring and individual air gas mixture adjustment rings. I find the flames hard to adjust under a kettle, every change in the number of rings in use or amount of flame, requires adjustment of the air gaps to maintain a clean flame on the burners in use. They are less efficient obviously, as much of the gas ends up as soot on the bottom of the kettle. My 3 ring used to take around 35 min to raise 30L from 60C to boiling point. Even though I used a small sheet of fibre cement under the 3 ring burner the concrete floor would become quite hot as the burner is quite close to the floor.

 

[andreic]

Hi,

I have recently been getting some gear together to go AG. I asked for a pot and a burner for my birthday and I got a 60l aluminium pot (robinox) and some money for a burner. I read all the threads I could find here related to burners. I was a little freaked out by the noise factor of the NASA so didn't want that, and whilst some people like their 3 ring burners I also decided that wasn't for me.

I bought my burner from Gameco in Sydney. Other people on this forum have given Gameco glowing reviews so I gave them a call. They quoted me a burner and high pressure reg at $105 (+gst). This is a discount to home brewers. I found them to be very helpful in discussions so I went to their shop. They demonstrated some of the burners for me. Whilst I was there the guy asked me if I wanted the demo reg at cost price. So, I ended up getting a wok burner and reg for $82.50. My burner is is the RH31LT model on this web page. There are a number of other brewers on this forum using this burner.

I have not used my burner for a brew yet but have given it a test run. I filled the pot up to the handles, and set the burner off on full. On full, this burner also generates some noise, but its not too severe and I guess there's no such thing as a very quiet high pressure burner. I would estimate this level of water in this test run to be around 40l. I got it from 20C to boiling in 30 minutes.

cheers,

Andrei

 

[Brewsmith]

Hi

Was looking at getting a burner to A.G with myself, Will most likely get the nasa burner, is that the one that Grape & Grain sell in there shop. If so does a Keg set on the stand ok, is it nice and stable. Or would a 3 ring burner be better for useing a Keg to boil around 30L.

Cheers Ian.

 

[mikem108]

I love the NASA, haven't done any scientific measurements but
1. Wort comes to the boil very quickly 10-15 mins for 40 litres vs well over 40 mins for the camping cooker or stovetop I used to use
2. It gives the oportunity for full on rolling boils not just a simmer
3. I think it is more gas efficient as it burns a nice blue flame and I've been getting more brews per gas refill since going NASA

 

[Screwtop]

Hi

Was looking at getting a burner to A.G with myself, Will most likely get the nasa burner, is that the one that Grape & Grain sell in there shop. Cheers Ian.

G&G is the go, very stable, usually have to use bricks of something as a stand with a 3 ring.

stand is 362mm in diameter (about the same as some kegs)

Or would a 3 ring burner be better for useing a Keg to boil around 30L.

Ring burners (3 ring burner here) require a fixed pressure regulator usually 2.6kPa. The flame is adjusted using individual taps for each ring and individual air gas mixture adjustment rings. I find the flames hard to adjust under a kettle, every change in the number of rings in use or amount of flame, requires adjustment of the air gaps to maintain a clean flame on the burners in use. They are less efficient obviously, as much of the gas ends up as soot on the bottom of the kettle. My 3 ring used to take around 35 min to raise 30L from 60C to boiling point. Even though I used a small sheet of fibre cement under the 3 ring burner the concrete floor would become quite hot as the burner is quite close to the floor.

 

[yardy]

I'll take some notes when i road test the Rocket, be interesting to see how long to get to boil.

Yard

 

[Sammus]

Anyone tried the duckbill burner? (made by the same company as the mongolians)

and a bit OT, but I couldn't settle for the cheap crappy looking HP regs that most supply with the NASA, an industrial LPG reg sure is the goods $90 tho a little more than most are willing to pay anyway..

And how do you reckon a HP reg on a mongolian would go? better than NASA maybe?

 

[yardy]

i'm just running a tap straight out of the POL and working off bottle pressure, can't see why it wouldn't work with another burner.

could be wrong tho.

Yard

 

[jimmyjack]

Check this bad boy out from the US, Its $119 US Dollars and 190,000 BTU




Keep Dreamin my wifey says :angry:

 

[yardy]

nice, be a piece of p!$$ to make it.

 

[Brewsmith]

Hi

Was looking at getting a burner to A.G with myself, Will most likely get the nasa burner, is that the one that Grape & Grain sell in there shop. Cheers Ian.

G&G is the go, very stable, usually have to use bricks of something as a stand with a 3 ring.

stand is 362mm in diameter (about the same as some kegs)

Or would a 3 ring burner be better for useing a Keg to boil around 30L.

Ring burners (3 ring burner here) require a fixed pressure regulator usually 2.6kPa. The flame is adjusted using individual taps for each ring and individual air gas mixture adjustment rings. I find the flames hard to adjust under a kettle, every change in the number of rings in use or amount of flame, requires adjustment of the air gaps to maintain a clean flame on the burners in use. They are less efficient obviously, as much of the gas ends up as soot on the bottom of the kettle. My 3 ring used to take around 35 min to raise 30L from 60C to boiling point. Even though I used a small sheet of fibre cement under the 3 ring burner the concrete floor would become quite hot as the burner is quite close to the floor.

Hi Screwtop

Thanks for your help on the nasa burners. Sounds like the G&G ones are the go.


Cheers Ian